County Gong Show

[blackjack]

emrald1...what is your idea on cattle drinking out of the creeks ...good or bad ...if bad... do you think its the ranchers responsibility to fence them off...or do you think govt should help in the cost... like you say there is thousands of tributaries here alone in alberta... that adds up to alot of money...

[cowman]

Emerald: The sad fact is that in most cases of "public interest" the good employees get sick of the BS and move into the private sector? It is really sad, in its own way, that this is so?
I'm not a "super insider" but I do know a bit about what turns people off?
They get disgusted with the "public system" of waste and mismanagement and eventually they move on? In reality that is how I will "lure" the ag guy from the county?
Quite often the people we do elect, tend to be "meglomaniacs"...that is why we elect them? They have a clear message that sounds good and aren't afraid to express it! In fact you couldn't get them to stop with a gag!
Personally, from a private perspective, booze should not be any part of any public service! I am not naive in how the world works...but I want my repersentatives sober and in full capacity of their faculties when making decisions that affect me! Maybe that is too much to ask in this day and age?

[cowman]

blackjack: You know that the right thing to do is fence them out of the creek. I struggled with this problem myself! One hudred years and no problems????
The boy decided that we should get into this "Environmental Farm Plan" thing! I was a reluctant participant...figured who the hell needs the government to run my affairs and decide how it should be!
I still have problems with the whole thing, but we did it and realized that we had a problem... not a big problem...but one that needeed to be addressed?
Problem: yep, our cows were polluting the springs. Yep, that spring ran into Waskasoo creek!
We fenced it this summer and without a doubt there was a cost! I told him at the time...we'll do this because it is the right thing to do...and the government can go to hell! He still thinks he might be able to squeeze a few bucks out of the deal but for me it was just the right thing to do and whether the government gives us any money was secondary? If they give us any money(unlikely) then that is fine...but frankly, they can go to hell!

[cowman]

blackjack, there are ways to keep cows away from creeks if they are near any other water source.
Many ranchers put mineral and cattle oilers near the creek and that invites the cattle to water there.
I don't like dugouts myself because I hate to see cows wallowing in the darn things and certainly the water quality cannot be good.
Fenced dugouts with windmill or solar pumps work well and there are some grants available for those.
I hope we never get to the day when producers are forced to fence off creeks, and at this point there is no talk of it as far as regulations go.
The biggest environmental concern isn't with the cows watering in creeks but with the seasonal feeding and bedding sites located near watercourses.
Spring runoff turns many creeks brown in this province and there is no need for it.

I see it in my own community and luckily someone called the NRCB last spring when the run off was pouring off a cow/calf operation into the county ditch and across the neighbours field. The rancher has moved his feeding operation this year but common sense should have told him that his feeding site posed an environmental risk last year !!

[cowman]

cowman I think its municipal politics not waste that makes good employees decide to leave. That combined with watching some members of council use the system for their own benefit has certainly had people looking elsewhere for jobs.
Many of the senior public works administration have gone to highway contractors, but it seems that County CEO's stay in the system forever, unless they get fired.

[blackjack]

i do agree cowman and emrald of keeping the cows away from the creeks as much as possible... the reason i did ask emrald was because of all the ranchers including myself that take cattle up into her area for summer grazing... when the problem isn't in your own back yard many are not going to go to the added cost to make it right...as for watering out of dugouts...have used a couple of kellin solar systems for a few years now with great success...

[blackjack]

The city of Calgary has been making noise about their concerns about their water being affected by cattle operations.
I think that the many watershed groups that are forming across the province shows that the cattle industry is being responsible and doing their part to ensure that they do everything possible to mitigate their affect on riparian areas.

It isn't just the livestock producer that needs to be aware of the potential for manure run off. Municipalities are allowed to discharge human sewage lagoon contents from Hamlets into creeks etc. Of course the lagoons have been treated and can only be discharged when AB Env. allows it to happen but Hamlet sewage is not required to be treated to the same level as sewage from cities, towns and villages.

I shudder when I think of all the residential development allowed along creeks and rivers, when it is a given that some domestic sewage disposial systems will fail. Fencing people away from creeks etc. isn't going to stop the sewage from migrating !!!

[cakadu]

From what I can gather, that is one of the reasons why permanent development along the *****on reservoir, otherwise known as Glennifer Lake, was opposed - because of the potential for waste water/sewage problems.

The problem might be unnoticed for a while because they don't always open up the dam to allow water to escape. Last summer's record rainfall was the exception of course when they had it open full bore to allow the water to move.

Water pollution is always a downstream problem and it may not bother you but it can sure affect others downstream. Think about some of the municipalities that you know of whose water treatment intake is below where the sewage comes out. No potential for problems there is there.

[blackjack]

...i look at problem pretty much the same as emrald does... to clean up the streams our city cousins also need to know they are as much responsible as the ag industry is...

...with our lack of lakes here in central alberta and the culture for people wanting to be at the beach ...and with some of the big dollars out there it all most looks likes a competition who can build the biggest cabin on the lake...i do agree with cakadu if glennifer ends up like another pine lake that would be rather sad to see to say the least...

[cowman]

Don't know what a permanent solution might be with sewage at Glennifer, but they are having problems with the whole sewage problem in gasoline alley(where the Glennifer sewage is trucked right now?). There is a major problem brewing with the city of Red Deer...probably come to a head this summer?
Another major problem is heading our way with the garbage control problem. July 1st is the cut off date for county garbage going into the city landfill. County council has dragged its feet on this issue ever since their major screwup of the Ridgeview landfill at Pine Lake? Now the chickens are starting to come home to roost! Council budgeted $425,000 for garbage disposal this year. With the RD landfill not an option it is probable, costs will at least triple! The solution as they see it: Set up more transfer sites and truck it a long distance! Is that viable?
Ridgeview: What kind of idiots build a landfill on a gravel pit less than two miles from a fresh water lake? When the gravel seam runs right into the lake? How do you find an engineering firm that says this makes sense? How do you bull it through for years, fighting a costly legal battle...only to have the whole thing come crashing down...when the liner fails? You walk away $7 million poorer and no solution in sight? Yep, sounds like a typical government operation.

[cowman]

landfills are a huge issue across the country. Our landfill accepted oilfield hazardous waste for years until a Class 1 Landfill was built out in the green zone by a private contractor.
This local landfill is accepting garbage from surrounding communities to help defray the cost of operation but it will shorten the lifespan. To cite a landfill isn't and easy task with all the regulative and environmental hoops to jump through.

[cakadu]

Blackjack, our city cousins may need some lessons in what happens to waste water ie washing your car in the driveway, over-fertilizing and it running into storm sewers etc. Acreage owners and particularly those that live near water bodies of any sort also need some enlightening. I know of people who live near a lake, not right on it but a "couple blocks back" in those little subdivisions and they are all fertilizing like mad and keeping the grass real short. Can you spell runoff? Generally the slope is toward the lake so guess where the runoff ends up?

People living around the lake will point to cows getting into the lake but not realize that the "city practices" they bring to the acreage just do not work.

That also brings us to using fertilizers and/or herbicides. Now most producers I know take courses in how to properly apply these chemicals. How many city folk and acreage owners take these kinds of courses? With the "green and immaculate" lawn competitions that take place between neighbours, what sorts of application rates do you think are used?

[cowman]

Well I read somewhere that the number one crop, in terms of fertilizer and various sprays, in America was the urban lawn!
Many cities have started to ban herbicides and pesticide use in cities, but the fact is every river in the agriculture area of Aberta shows some sign of herbicides and the one that shows up more than anything else is MCPA? You might find it very interesting that there is a brand new herbicide out there this year that is perhaps the safest product EVER made? Can literally be sprayed on the rivers edge, completely breaks down in water in less than two hours, doesn't move in the soil, extremely safe for vertibrates and invertebrates. Milestone is the industrial brand name. You will be able to buy it as Restore.

[cowman]

By the way: The sewage system from Penhold,Springbrook, gasoline alley all runs into the city of Red Deers system? It is obviously overloaded where it enters the system at 30 avenue? Take a drive down 30th in the summer with your window open! Sweet!
Of course the residents are furious and the county has tried many expensive solutions (I believe $400 K and counting)! Once again this goes back to the same problem that usually happens in Red Deer county...incompetent people in charge...and incompetent politicians covering up their butts!
I suspect things will come to a head soon as the mayor of Red Deer has appointed a task force to deal with the rotten smell and actual H2S coming from the county system! Then it will be "Well we are surprized! We don't know what happened! Yes it is deplorable that we need to spend $8 million to fix this problem! What can we say...it is a sign of the times!"

[cowman]

There is politics at play here as well cowman. The city of Red Deer has always disliked the development on their southern boundary not being within city limits so the next step might possibly be an annexation attempt by the city.