Health Care System

[denrob]

2 points - 1) The costs of health care do not go away when you privatize - the amount paid will not be less (it will be more), it is just the payer that is different. But it makes sense in our society today as a lot of people now spend so much time navel gazing they won't notice the plight of their neighbours - so long as they don't have to contribute, they will be happy. AND
2) perhaps a good part of the reason the public system is not working is because the current political powers that be want to create a reason to privatize. When the City of Calgary is growing by 1/2 the size of Red Deer every year, and one of Calgary's major hospital was dynamited 10 years ago removing the number of beds now in the City of Red Deer (and those beds never being replaced), dissatisfaction with the current system was planted, and has been amply fertilized and cultivated ever since.
Mind you unless more doctors and nurses are found to staff whatever system there is, all this debate is irrelevant.

[cowman]

Well I don't think Klein is suggesting you "pay up front"? I believe the third way(as I understand it) is basically contracting out...now maybe I am misinformed?
If you believe the government...highway maitenance is cheaper than when it was a public system? If you believe the figures of Red Deer County then contracting out saved $1.5 Million on what was a $6 Million dollar budget? And the CAO will show you the books! Is service poorer? Who knows...the traffic has increased a lot! But one fact is clear...today they are putting approximately twice as much gravel on the roads! But bottom line is a 25% saving is no small potatoes?
The fear monger scenario of everybody pays really doesn't wash? If a private clinic sets up shop and charges an "additional fee" for a service(ie. hip replacement) how is that a bad thing? The public service is still there but you have the option of paying to get it done quicker? The small scale of this type of clinic in Alberta, compared to what is going on in Quebec, is a joke. And didn't the supreme court rule this was just fine? That in fact the Charter guarantees us this option?
If in fact we carry on with the system we have in place...it will crumble? There needs to be some responsibility brought into the system? Throwing mega billions at it just won't work.
As Ralph Klein says "How much is enough?" We spend way too much of our GDP on health care and education and both are antiquated public systems that need to be brought into the 21st century?
In the past I have done some contract work for both municipalities and dept. of highways. I have seen some of their public operations and quite frankly they are inefficient and any private contractor could go in there and shave off a whole lot of fat and do it a lot cheaper...while still making a good profit! I doubt healthcare is any different.

[craig]

The argument that there is an agenda by the provincial government to create a demand for Private health care doesn't wash. I don't think Alberta is much different than most of the other provinces when it comes to problems in delivering Health care.

[denrob]

You will never convince me that because you and I are now at a point in our life where we can afford the private insurance premiums (which is what 3rd way is talking about) to ensure timely, best practise access to health care that we deserve it anymore than if we had the misfortune to meet up with an accident or illness before we had acquired assets & $ to live off of. You will never convince me that contracting out to private companies who are NOT regulated by standards etc (by those much hated beauracrats), who then have to be regulated through the court system by lawsuits after injuries have occured is a better system. You will never convince me that contracting out to private companies who cannot afford to pay decent wages because they only win contracts if they promise to provide that care cheaply will provide better care. Wiping butts, cleaning up bodily fluids, and dealing with the demented is not glamorous work. If you can make the same $ working @ MacDonalds, the people who apply to work for the private caregiving companies will be those who have trouble getting employment elsewhere - the inexperienced, the unstable, and the dishonest. We are talking about our most vulnerable citizens here - do you really want to relegate their care to a system where answering to the shareholders is the number one priority? Did privatizing CNR improve the status of our rail lines? Did privatizing electricity make it more affordable for the people? This will be my last comments - just think seriously about what is happening.

[denrob]

denrob, those are excellent comments.

[cakadu]

Here, here.

[cakadu]

My daughter in law is a very dedicated nurse. She works in acute and emergency care, and in her opinion well over 70% of the users of emergency are wasting the health care system in one way or another.
Either by running to emerg with a cold or with a child that has a cold that could easily be looked after at home or by the doctor during office hours, and by those who abuse drugs and alcohol.

On any given night in the hospital where she works at least half a dozen OD's on drugs are brought in, or individuals that have been beaten in drug related crimes. She works in a small Alberta town, so with that kind of usage in small town AB., one can only imagine what waste goes on in large centres.

[cowman]

I think we are forgetting the fact that the supreme court has ruled under the charter of rights that privatized medi care is an option? How does anyone deal with that? The fact is that is now the law of the land? We have no other option.
In fact we can't even legislate public health care as an exclusive thing anymore? The charter decided that...and didn't the great Paul Martin say " The charter is the final say"?
Ralph Klein will do what he thinks is best for the taxpayer of this province. If you don't like it you have the right to vote him out? That is called democracy?
How can any federal government stop a province from going to a "third way"? Did the federal government even make an effort in Quebec? Whats good for Quebec should be good for Alberta, right? Or do you believe Quebec should be treated different than every other province?

[daretodiffer]

Cowman makes a whole bunch of outrageous statements. "The system doesn't work?" absolute nonsense. It works just fine and like anything, the critics could run it cheaper, faster and more efficiently.

Funny thing though, what's that high rise office building sitting next to every American hospital. Why it's the accounting department chasing all those payments for the business.

"When Alberta was basically forced to join medicare, Ernest Manning(premier) said that eventually medicare would break this country and create a monster that we couldn't stop. Now I would say he wasn't far off the mark? "

Spoken like a true Albertan who is convinced that anything they don't agree with in public policy is not their fault but some boogey man from away stuffing things down our throat. Again such utter nonesense. You have an amazing memory to recall the pontification of a premier who hasn't been around for 40 plus years. And a guy who was big on everyman for himself it seems.

"Whenever you take away peoples duty to be responsible for themselves, you take away an essential human element? You create a nanny state where innovation and responsibility are supressed! It is very evident in this society? Everyone feels "entitled" to have a good life, have all the benifits, have the government take care of them...and do as little as possible!...In other words the welfare state?"

This is quite astounding talk coming from a member of the rural community who receives billions of dollars of aid and subsidy from the public purse. Let me tell you another piece of historical memory and only about 3 years old. When the BSE crisis hit Neil Yanke CCA president was in the news saying that "We're dead against government subisides but by gosh this time it's different"

"It is a slippery slope back to slavery?"

Do you ever listen to what you are saying? I doubt that you have any knowledge of "slavery" nor the intricacies of this health care issue. I just know you don't vote for them commie pinko socialists.

[cowman]

Yep, I got what I could out of the BSE subsidies. I wasn't the one who let a bunch of diseased cattle in. I wasn't feeding my cattle dead cows. I wasn't the one who negotiated a trade deal that the Americans didn't honor.
And on top of that I paid a lot more taxes than I ever got from the "BSE subsidies".
Sorry if my quoting Earnest Manning bothers you. My great grandfather was a founding member of the Social Credit party and an MLA and growing up I was taught that was the "true religion"! A very socially and financially conservative party to say the least. Guess I was brainwashed from an early age.