Health Care System

[WoolyBear]

Something to add too about the health care system. We have all heard or experienced the inefficiency and inequities in the system, the MEDIA has been SURE TO TELL US! Very rarely do they ever report all the good things about it. We don't hear about the staff that DO work hard inspite of the problems. We don't hear of the many sicknesses and fractures, and healings that are achieved.

When all we hear is the negative, many people that might otherwise have great ideas to improve things, might just think......its beyond help, why bother trying to fix it.

I think that the best place to start the "Head rolling" is with senior administration. With 6 figure salaries usually starting with a 2 or even 3..... they should be held accountable.

[cakadu]

Trouble with private health care cowman is that the profits will not be brought back into the system, rather they will go to those that own the clinic. I don't imagine that private is going to be cheaper than public - in fact I would say it is going to be more expensive because they will have people that can afford to pay.

Who gets to decide where the imaginary cut-off line is going to be for the haves and the have-nots?

I agree that if the money went to where it was supposed to go instead of to "management" things could be a lot better.

People are aging, countless people are getting diagnosed with cancer every day, there are all sorts of health problems that one doesn't bring on themselves. Some heart conditions are heriditary for example and people have congenital defects. Not everything is brought on by abusing ourselves with our chosen lifestyles and/or social conditions.

If doctors choose to work in the private system, then to my way of thinking they cannot and should not be allowed to practice in the public system. You make your choice and you live with it - you can't have it both ways.

[cowman]

Well I think Ralphs main idea was not to so much have an out and out private system but a private system that worked within the public system? Sort of like instead of the government building a clinic and staffing it, they just contract the work out?
In reality we already have that in a way? The doctor is not an employee but a private contractor billing the government for services?
If it is cheaper to let a private contractor do a service than what the public sector costs...doesn't that make sense? Consider other government areas that have been privatized...liquor stores, licensing agencies, highway maitenance? Would we really want to go back to a public system in any of these areas?
The media doesn't treat this whole subject fairly. They like to scaremonger with the idea you will die if you can't pay...and that totally is not what Ralph is saying? We already have a scenario where the rich can get treated if they pay..you go to the USA! But I think if you look at Ralphs "third way" that isn't what he is saying at all?

[Horse]

Cowman seeing as you know what Ralph is saying why dont you tell us I sure cant make heads or tails of the [ third way ].
Insurance is insurance do you not think they are going to profit by cherry picking , they want a public system in place so when you get cancer or alshimers or heart problems they can dump you back to the public system the same as with auto insurance.
Sorry I just dont believe in the tooth fairy, it will be american companys and as with electrical deregulation they wont obey our laws because they are American.

[Horse]

What I think Ralph is saying is this Govmt is uncapable of running the health care system so mabey they should step aside and give some one else a chance they surly couldnt run it any worse.

[cakadu]

Or could it be cowman that the media can do the scaremongering for the third way and then when it does actually get announced, people will look at it and say it isn't so bad?

It is a slippery slope and we need to be sure we absolutely understand what it is we are getting into, or not getting into as the case may be.

The difference between the proposed changes to health care (whatever they are because we haven't been informed of those yet) and the privatization of licensing, road works and alcohol is that the latter do not have any way to get into the public purse or at least none that I am aware of. They function on their own as businesses and they succeed or fail by what they do.

So far they have not explained how it won't set up a two-tiered, have vs. have not system. Maybe there are things that we can primarly agree on, but how do we know at this point?

For now, I will maintain that if a doctor wants to work in the private system, then they cannot and should not be allowed into the public system.

[cakadu]

Health care should never be a two tier system. I too have seen frail elderly patients lying on gurneys, and if they don't have family there that will yell their heads off to get them looked after and into a proper bed they will like there in que like so many cattle in a chute !!!

The health care system is broken due to abuse, for one thing and the regionalization of hospital boards has not worked, the beaurocracy is out of control.

[cowman]

Well I don't think Ralph is proposing two tier health care...although we already have that...Go to the US?
I think the idea is to contract with private clinics for services? How is this any different from what we have today...within the public system? How is that any different than LedCor plowing the highways? The doctor takes out your gall bladder or sets a bone...he is paid a set fee? The only difference is this: For certain procedures you don't need a multi million dollar hospital...a clinic will do just fine? The hip and knee clinics show that? Faster and cheaper than the public system?
We already have this system in place...its called an abortion mill? Woman drops in, gets her baby killed, goes home, doctor senda Alberta Health a bill and they pay it? It works especially well as few real doctors and nurses want to be involved in this dirty business? So it would be a classic example of how a private clinic would work?
Bottom line cut waiting times and get it done cheaper than the public system!
And maybe at the end of the day we could change some rules so we don't have doctors doing certain procedures(or getting paid for them) that other people could do? For instance taking off a cast or taking out stitches? In fact usually a nurse does those things...but the doctor sends in a bill for it? Who knows...maybe my vet would sew you up for about one quarter what a doctor charges...and you wouldn't have to sit in the waiting room for 2 hours bleeding all over the floor!
There are a lot of ways you could reform healthcare? Personally I think a $2000 deductible would be the way to go? You pay the first $2000...anything after that the government picks up the tab? Would eliminate about 90% of the social visits that clog up the system! The other idea would be a user fee everytime you feel the urge to have a visit? Say $20? That also would clean up a lot of the BS? And of course the poor would be excempt...just like they are now with premiums.
This is not radical? This was exactly how it was when I was a kid? My mother had to pay up front when she took us to the doctor but when you had a big problem insurance kicked in? It worked real well.

[cowman]

I agree that a user fee per visit would likely eliminate some of the abuse of the system but I would hate to see anyone have to produce a card at the reception desk in a doctors office indicating they were 'poor'. This information would be on file for repeat patients but those visiting a clinic for the first time would be expected to prove their inability to pay .

I suspect that some consultant is getting rich providing the government with draft legislation for the 'third way'

[blackjack]

...well i am with cowman on this one ... the only other countries that run health care the way we do are cuba and one other (don't remember where)...even socialist capital sweden and germany have private clinics...
...had to agree with that duceppe fellow from quebec...our nation has 10,000 bureaucrats in ottawa trying to figure out how to run a system ...every province has another level of them eating donuts and drinking coffee trying to figure how to run it... i just wish ralph would quit the b.s. and get on with it...the system needs a changin...

[Horse]

I never was one to throw out the old before you got the new and so far Ralph hasnt said one thing ,I realy believe he dosent have a clue other than letting in the insurance companys that are already in business[ american health care ]
One of these days he will just say we have had a discussion and then do as he pleases just the same as he has always done.

[Horse]

horse I am sure there will be TARGETTED consultation, and then some little group of beaurocrats will put their own spin on it !!!