Health Care System

[cowman]

What was the original intention of public healthcare? Was it a place for old ladies to go visit the doctor when they felt lonely? Was it a form of cheap birth control? Was it designed so we could destroy anti-biotics by giving little Johnnie a pill everytime he had a snotty nose?...I don't think so...
Wasn't the original purpose to provide a safety net so a family wouldn't be wiped out financially by a long term health problem?
This "public health care system" has grown into a monster that is out of control! Where does it all end?
The saddest thing that has happened is this "system" has taken away the responsibility of the individual! Being on the government tit tends to do that?
In everything we do, we should be responsible for ourselves. Government is NEVER the answer!
If Klein can introduce some sort of system that lowers the cost to the Alberta taxpayer then that is a good idea? If he can shift some of the responsibility for an individuals health back onto the individual...then that is a good idea?
Several on here won't agree with me and that is okay. And yep I've had close family members die of cancer etc. and yes it is an ugly disease and a very expensive disease to fight, but the fact is all the money in the world isn't going to save a lot of these people anyway...so why waste it!
I have a rare genetic disease that is terminal. Doesn't mean I'm going to roll over dead tommorrow or something! The main stream medical system would have killed me! Now I go to the "witch doctor"(on my own dime) and think I might just live to a ripe old age(and actually enjoy the ride!)!
Personally I couldn't care or less if they bull dozed every hospital tommorrow! If you want to die...go to the hospital! Back in old England the hospital was called by its real name..."the pest house"...and that is where they sent you to die!

[craig]

Great discussion from level headed rural folk. At the end of the day the reality is that no one has provided solutions to make the present system work. It also seems crazy that so many people want to protect the status quo when everyone who has had to use the system knows it doesn't work. Whether Ralph's solution is the correct one or not, he seems to be at least willing to try. For those of you trying to protect the status quo, you have had your chance over the last 15 to 20 years to make things better with no results. My standard comment any time I'm in a hospital is that if I ran my business this way I would have been out of business many years ago.

[craig]

craig, for years I haven't been happy with the status quo. When I was on council we had doctors making presentations demanding that the municipality top up salaries or they were all going to move to the US. They were told that health care was not a municipal responsibility although ambulance service at that time was.

I see a doctor once a year unless I have some illness that requires medical attention between visits. I am an asthmatic and deal with it through holistic measures plus conventional medication. When I need prescriptions renewed I have to visit the doctor.

I have friends that see a doctor at least once a week, then they need to have tests done, then they need to see a specialist and of course they need more medication. Their health deteriorates because of all the damn chemicals they are putting in their bodies but you can't tell them that.
If they had to pay $20.00- $50.00 for every visit or testing process I am willing to bet that they would find a hobby !!!!

I want to see an affordable health care system for those that need it, whether they are the 'old ladies' or pregnant moms to be or anyone else that really needs the system.

Anyone with half an ounce of business sense could go into our local hospital and sort out the necessary staff from those who are taking up space that could be turned into accute care or long term care beds.
The waste in the system has gotten out of control, throwing more money at it isn't going to solve the problem. The 'third way' won't either unless some control is in place on the spending of the health regions.

[cowman]

And if the "third way" is in fact private business running the health care system, I think you would see a good part of the abuse end? Nothing like a dollar in the pocket to make things hum right along?
If we have "public healthcare"...and nothing but, then why do we have these private corporations operating within our public system? Every doctor in the system has set themselves up as a private corporation, whether they have a clinic or not? The fact is these "private corporations" bill the public system for the services they provide while using the public facilities for free? If we truly wanted a pure public system then the doctors would become employees of that system, instead of private enterprizes? Of course the salary might not be as much....which is why the doctors would never agree to it!
The fact is most GPs don't really do much these days. They are pill pushers and referal services! Occasionally they might lower themselves to sew you up or something? A ten minute job...bill the government $400! Oh and don't forget to come back to get those stitches out...bingo! Another $150!
As I said before my local vet is pretty good at sewing...probably get you sewed up for $20...and you can take out your own darned stitches!

[cowman]

Just a little tidbit: When I was young my Dad raised purebred black Labs. One day he caught a very expensive female in the mower and cut off her front leg! He quickly wrapped her and the leg up in a sheet and tore off to town! The local vet was not in so he took her over to the old town doctor, who was a bit of a drunk! The old doctor took her up to the hospital and operated right in the operating room! Sewed all the tendons, blood vessels etc....did one hell of a job! My Dad said what do I owe you? He said well I can't charge you for a dog because I am a human doctor so I guess if you buy me a bottle of whisky we'll call it even. My Dad said I sure will...and the doctor said "On second thought you'd better make that two bottles of whisky!"
I think that dog lived to be about fourteen and had like 14 pups every year! Also was my Dads favorite duck dog.

[cakadu]

Cowman, as with all things there are pill pushers out there and there are an awful lot of really good doctors. The reason many of them set up corporations has more to do with liability than with billing or anything else. They pay staggering fees for insurance every year.

Doctors are in university for at least 7 years if not more depending on how they specialize, do 2 years as an intern and another 2 or more as a resident, again depending on what they want to do.

There are people that abuse the health care system and there is no doubt about it they are a drain on the system, as are the regional boards with their management systems.

When you have the means to afford extra services you tend to overlook the fact that there are an awful lot of people out there who cannot afford it. When one is fat, sassy and comfortable it is easy to espouse policies that won't affect you as much (and I am using the all encompassing you here and not singling anyone out.)

We have a growing disparity between rich and poor in this province. If the economy wasn't what it is, I don't know that we would be talking this "third way" at all.

[cakadu]

First, I think that people have to take ownership of their own health. Many health issues and costs to the system are the result of poor choices that are made.
Secondly, patients have a choice whether or not they wish to become a walking pharmacy full of medications. My doctor went on a years sabbatical and the fellow that took his place was a real pill pusher. He soon learned that I have no intention of taking any medication that is not absolutely necessary, and has since stopped trying to push then off on me !!!

[Horse]

Emerald Dont get mad but if you dont need the pills and dont take the Dr advise then why did you go to the Dr in the first place.

[Horse]

horse I knew you were going to ask that question !!! As I said in a previous post I see the doctor once a year to get necessary prescriptions renewed. On the visit I refer to a new doctor wanted to increase the number of medications I take for asthma....and I refused.

[cakadu]

You bring up a good point emrald. Many people do not question the Dr. when told about something new - they just go ahead and take it because the Dr. knows best - right? Not always and you know your own self best. I'm with you - I don't take anything more than is necessary and for no longer than is necessary either i.e. I will finish the prescription but not go back for more.

One of the reasons that we are running into so much anti-biotic resistance is that people do not properly take their medication or take it when it is not necessary. Too often when people start to feel better they quit taking their antibiotics, which builds up resistance.

There is a fairly cute commercial on the TV right now aimed at kids and it is about "not all bugs need drugs".

[cowman]

Well I would suggest the main reason doctors become corporations has more to do with the 17% tax rate than being sued? Have you ever heard of a Canadian doctor being sued? It just doesn't happen.
The point was however: If we have private enterprize operating in our so called public system now...what is the problem? The doctor and the clinic are "private enterprize" already? The difference is the government pays the fee to these private individuals providing the service? The government also provides these private enterprize doctors with a place to work called the hospital? Now without a doubt it cost a lot of money to provide the doctor with a hospital? And if a certain doctor said "Hey I'll provide my own hospital(for a fee of course) and I'll do it cheaper than your hospital"...what is the problem?
In a truly public system the doctor would be an employee, therefore not draining valuable profit out of the public system? But we do not have that at all...we have a mix of private and public health care?
Somehow people want to get all emotional about healthcare and don't like to compare it to any other industry, but the fact is just like highway maitenance these services can be contracted out? And in fact are already contracted out to the private contractor, called a doctor?
If Doctor "A" decides the public hospital is not a good place to work and he thinks he can do a better job providing a more efficient workplace at a lower price, then he should be encouraged instead of prevented from doing that? How can this be wrong?

[cowman]

AS long as all the doctors don't decide to work in private hospitals and clinics where people have to pay a fee upfront similar to the one in Calgary .

My only concern in all of this is that no-one is either asked to provide proof they are 'poor' or made to pay a large fee upfront to receive health care.

Many years ago my late husband went to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minn. He was hospitalized as an emergency patient while there and before they would process him for admission we were required to pay $1500 US up front. Most of it was refunded after our AB health care paid the costs but to this day I don't know what we would have done had we not had the $1500 US.
It left a bad taste in my mouth for that kind of health care delivery.

The funny part of all this is that the hospital he was admitted to was a Catholic hospital run by sisters. When they sent us the refund check after AB health had paid, they sent a letter asking if we could find it in our heart to endorse the check and send it back to them because they were a charity.....