Health Care System

[cakadu]

Canadian doctors do get used, we just tend not to hear about the local happenings and unless it involves a mega star or many, many people we don't hear about it for long, if at all.

Show me where contracting out does actually work and I don't mean being told it works, show me how it actually does. Show me how service has gotten better. When you talk about road maintenance cowman, it hasn't gotten better in some areas in fact it has gotten worse.

Road contracting etc. does not have the option of going back to the public purse so they have to make a go of it. If doctors are allowed to go back and forth, where do you think the shortfall in services is going to occur? Not in the private sector as that is where they will be going.

Emrald has shown why it is easy to say we need to have this user pay system when you have the money to pay.

Imagine for a moment someone who is barely getting by, has no outside resources they can go to for money, can't borrow beg or sell anything to raise money. Now imagine their child gets very sick. Are we to say that this child doesn't get the care because the parents are unable to pay? Imagine it one of your much loved grandchildren. Would you have the same response then?

It is easy to say let's do it when you are not affected by it or not likely to be affected by it. If we weren't rolling in cash at the moment, I don't believe we would be looking at another system. This is a very slippery slope and we need to be extremely careful as to how we are going to proceed.

[cakadu]

years ago many kids grew up without adequate health care, and particularly dental care.
I realize that when I go to my doctor I go to a private medical clinic, and I would have no problem paying a portion of the office visit, however, I hope the system isn't completely dismantled before there is a good plan in place that will work to ensure that there is adequate health care for all .

And my view of adequate health care is not patients lying on gurneys for hours or days waiting to be admitted to a hospital bed.

[craig]

Just wanted to make the comment that when someone is in the hospital and has no family to help them, they are not afforded the same service as others. Another example of a system overloaded so patients can't be looked after properly.

[craig]

craig, this also holds true for patients in continuing care/long term care facilities. If they don't have family or close friends to advocate for them it is a real concern. A very good friend has been a staunch PC supporter but when her aging parent needed continuing care she and her siblings paid to have him in a privte care centre, and even there she had to lay down a set of guidelines and drop in unnanounced several times a day to ensure that he was getting the care they were paying for.

[denrob]

2 points - 1) The costs of health care do not go away when you privatize - the amount paid will not be less (it will be more), it is just the payer that is different. But it makes sense in our society today as a lot of people now spend so much time navel gazing they won't notice the plight of their neighbours - so long as they don't have to contribute, they will be happy. AND
2) perhaps a good part of the reason the public system is not working is because the current political powers that be want to create a reason to privatize. When the City of Calgary is growing by 1/2 the size of Red Deer every year, and one of Calgary's major hospital was dynamited 10 years ago removing the number of beds now in the City of Red Deer (and those beds never being replaced), dissatisfaction with the current system was planted, and has been amply fertilized and cultivated ever since.
Mind you unless more doctors and nurses are found to staff whatever system there is, all this debate is irrelevant.

[cowman]

Well I don't think Klein is suggesting you "pay up front"? I believe the third way(as I understand it) is basically contracting out...now maybe I am misinformed?
If you believe the government...highway maitenance is cheaper than when it was a public system? If you believe the figures of Red Deer County then contracting out saved $1.5 Million on what was a $6 Million dollar budget? And the CAO will show you the books! Is service poorer? Who knows...the traffic has increased a lot! But one fact is clear...today they are putting approximately twice as much gravel on the roads! But bottom line is a 25% saving is no small potatoes?
The fear monger scenario of everybody pays really doesn't wash? If a private clinic sets up shop and charges an "additional fee" for a service(ie. hip replacement) how is that a bad thing? The public service is still there but you have the option of paying to get it done quicker? The small scale of this type of clinic in Alberta, compared to what is going on in Quebec, is a joke. And didn't the supreme court rule this was just fine? That in fact the Charter guarantees us this option?
If in fact we carry on with the system we have in place...it will crumble? There needs to be some responsibility brought into the system? Throwing mega billions at it just won't work.
As Ralph Klein says "How much is enough?" We spend way too much of our GDP on health care and education and both are antiquated public systems that need to be brought into the 21st century?
In the past I have done some contract work for both municipalities and dept. of highways. I have seen some of their public operations and quite frankly they are inefficient and any private contractor could go in there and shave off a whole lot of fat and do it a lot cheaper...while still making a good profit! I doubt healthcare is any different.

[craig]

The argument that there is an agenda by the provincial government to create a demand for Private health care doesn't wash. I don't think Alberta is much different than most of the other provinces when it comes to problems in delivering Health care.

[denrob]

You will never convince me that because you and I are now at a point in our life where we can afford the private insurance premiums (which is what 3rd way is talking about) to ensure timely, best practise access to health care that we deserve it anymore than if we had the misfortune to meet up with an accident or illness before we had acquired assets & $ to live off of. You will never convince me that contracting out to private companies who are NOT regulated by standards etc (by those much hated beauracrats), who then have to be regulated through the court system by lawsuits after injuries have occured is a better system. You will never convince me that contracting out to private companies who cannot afford to pay decent wages because they only win contracts if they promise to provide that care cheaply will provide better care. Wiping butts, cleaning up bodily fluids, and dealing with the demented is not glamorous work. If you can make the same $ working @ MacDonalds, the people who apply to work for the private caregiving companies will be those who have trouble getting employment elsewhere - the inexperienced, the unstable, and the dishonest. We are talking about our most vulnerable citizens here - do you really want to relegate their care to a system where answering to the shareholders is the number one priority? Did privatizing CNR improve the status of our rail lines? Did privatizing electricity make it more affordable for the people? This will be my last comments - just think seriously about what is happening.

[denrob]

denrob, those are excellent comments.

[cakadu]

Here, here.

[cakadu]

My daughter in law is a very dedicated nurse. She works in acute and emergency care, and in her opinion well over 70% of the users of emergency are wasting the health care system in one way or another.
Either by running to emerg with a cold or with a child that has a cold that could easily be looked after at home or by the doctor during office hours, and by those who abuse drugs and alcohol.

On any given night in the hospital where she works at least half a dozen OD's on drugs are brought in, or individuals that have been beaten in drug related crimes. She works in a small Alberta town, so with that kind of usage in small town AB., one can only imagine what waste goes on in large centres.

[cowman]

I think we are forgetting the fact that the supreme court has ruled under the charter of rights that privatized medi care is an option? How does anyone deal with that? The fact is that is now the law of the land? We have no other option.
In fact we can't even legislate public health care as an exclusive thing anymore? The charter decided that...and didn't the great Paul Martin say " The charter is the final say"?
Ralph Klein will do what he thinks is best for the taxpayer of this province. If you don't like it you have the right to vote him out? That is called democracy?
How can any federal government stop a province from going to a "third way"? Did the federal government even make an effort in Quebec? Whats good for Quebec should be good for Alberta, right? Or do you believe Quebec should be treated different than every other province?