Health Care System

[cakadu]

First, I think that people have to take ownership of their own health. Many health issues and costs to the system are the result of poor choices that are made.
Secondly, patients have a choice whether or not they wish to become a walking pharmacy full of medications. My doctor went on a years sabbatical and the fellow that took his place was a real pill pusher. He soon learned that I have no intention of taking any medication that is not absolutely necessary, and has since stopped trying to push then off on me !!!

[Horse]

Emerald Dont get mad but if you dont need the pills and dont take the Dr advise then why did you go to the Dr in the first place.

[Horse]

horse I knew you were going to ask that question !!! As I said in a previous post I see the doctor once a year to get necessary prescriptions renewed. On the visit I refer to a new doctor wanted to increase the number of medications I take for asthma....and I refused.

[cakadu]

You bring up a good point emrald. Many people do not question the Dr. when told about something new - they just go ahead and take it because the Dr. knows best - right? Not always and you know your own self best. I'm with you - I don't take anything more than is necessary and for no longer than is necessary either i.e. I will finish the prescription but not go back for more.

One of the reasons that we are running into so much anti-biotic resistance is that people do not properly take their medication or take it when it is not necessary. Too often when people start to feel better they quit taking their antibiotics, which builds up resistance.

There is a fairly cute commercial on the TV right now aimed at kids and it is about "not all bugs need drugs".

[cowman]

Well I would suggest the main reason doctors become corporations has more to do with the 17% tax rate than being sued? Have you ever heard of a Canadian doctor being sued? It just doesn't happen.
The point was however: If we have private enterprize operating in our so called public system now...what is the problem? The doctor and the clinic are "private enterprize" already? The difference is the government pays the fee to these private individuals providing the service? The government also provides these private enterprize doctors with a place to work called the hospital? Now without a doubt it cost a lot of money to provide the doctor with a hospital? And if a certain doctor said "Hey I'll provide my own hospital(for a fee of course) and I'll do it cheaper than your hospital"...what is the problem?
In a truly public system the doctor would be an employee, therefore not draining valuable profit out of the public system? But we do not have that at all...we have a mix of private and public health care?
Somehow people want to get all emotional about healthcare and don't like to compare it to any other industry, but the fact is just like highway maitenance these services can be contracted out? And in fact are already contracted out to the private contractor, called a doctor?
If Doctor "A" decides the public hospital is not a good place to work and he thinks he can do a better job providing a more efficient workplace at a lower price, then he should be encouraged instead of prevented from doing that? How can this be wrong?

[cowman]

AS long as all the doctors don't decide to work in private hospitals and clinics where people have to pay a fee upfront similar to the one in Calgary .

My only concern in all of this is that no-one is either asked to provide proof they are 'poor' or made to pay a large fee upfront to receive health care.

Many years ago my late husband went to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minn. He was hospitalized as an emergency patient while there and before they would process him for admission we were required to pay $1500 US up front. Most of it was refunded after our AB health care paid the costs but to this day I don't know what we would have done had we not had the $1500 US.
It left a bad taste in my mouth for that kind of health care delivery.

The funny part of all this is that the hospital he was admitted to was a Catholic hospital run by sisters. When they sent us the refund check after AB health had paid, they sent a letter asking if we could find it in our heart to endorse the check and send it back to them because they were a charity.....

[cakadu]

Canadian doctors do get used, we just tend not to hear about the local happenings and unless it involves a mega star or many, many people we don't hear about it for long, if at all.

Show me where contracting out does actually work and I don't mean being told it works, show me how it actually does. Show me how service has gotten better. When you talk about road maintenance cowman, it hasn't gotten better in some areas in fact it has gotten worse.

Road contracting etc. does not have the option of going back to the public purse so they have to make a go of it. If doctors are allowed to go back and forth, where do you think the shortfall in services is going to occur? Not in the private sector as that is where they will be going.

Emrald has shown why it is easy to say we need to have this user pay system when you have the money to pay.

Imagine for a moment someone who is barely getting by, has no outside resources they can go to for money, can't borrow beg or sell anything to raise money. Now imagine their child gets very sick. Are we to say that this child doesn't get the care because the parents are unable to pay? Imagine it one of your much loved grandchildren. Would you have the same response then?

It is easy to say let's do it when you are not affected by it or not likely to be affected by it. If we weren't rolling in cash at the moment, I don't believe we would be looking at another system. This is a very slippery slope and we need to be extremely careful as to how we are going to proceed.

[cakadu]

years ago many kids grew up without adequate health care, and particularly dental care.
I realize that when I go to my doctor I go to a private medical clinic, and I would have no problem paying a portion of the office visit, however, I hope the system isn't completely dismantled before there is a good plan in place that will work to ensure that there is adequate health care for all .

And my view of adequate health care is not patients lying on gurneys for hours or days waiting to be admitted to a hospital bed.

[craig]

Just wanted to make the comment that when someone is in the hospital and has no family to help them, they are not afforded the same service as others. Another example of a system overloaded so patients can't be looked after properly.

[craig]

craig, this also holds true for patients in continuing care/long term care facilities. If they don't have family or close friends to advocate for them it is a real concern. A very good friend has been a staunch PC supporter but when her aging parent needed continuing care she and her siblings paid to have him in a privte care centre, and even there she had to lay down a set of guidelines and drop in unnanounced several times a day to ensure that he was getting the care they were paying for.

[denrob]

2 points - 1) The costs of health care do not go away when you privatize - the amount paid will not be less (it will be more), it is just the payer that is different. But it makes sense in our society today as a lot of people now spend so much time navel gazing they won't notice the plight of their neighbours - so long as they don't have to contribute, they will be happy. AND
2) perhaps a good part of the reason the public system is not working is because the current political powers that be want to create a reason to privatize. When the City of Calgary is growing by 1/2 the size of Red Deer every year, and one of Calgary's major hospital was dynamited 10 years ago removing the number of beds now in the City of Red Deer (and those beds never being replaced), dissatisfaction with the current system was planted, and has been amply fertilized and cultivated ever since.
Mind you unless more doctors and nurses are found to staff whatever system there is, all this debate is irrelevant.

[cowman]

Well I don't think Klein is suggesting you "pay up front"? I believe the third way(as I understand it) is basically contracting out...now maybe I am misinformed?
If you believe the government...highway maitenance is cheaper than when it was a public system? If you believe the figures of Red Deer County then contracting out saved $1.5 Million on what was a $6 Million dollar budget? And the CAO will show you the books! Is service poorer? Who knows...the traffic has increased a lot! But one fact is clear...today they are putting approximately twice as much gravel on the roads! But bottom line is a 25% saving is no small potatoes?
The fear monger scenario of everybody pays really doesn't wash? If a private clinic sets up shop and charges an "additional fee" for a service(ie. hip replacement) how is that a bad thing? The public service is still there but you have the option of paying to get it done quicker? The small scale of this type of clinic in Alberta, compared to what is going on in Quebec, is a joke. And didn't the supreme court rule this was just fine? That in fact the Charter guarantees us this option?
If in fact we carry on with the system we have in place...it will crumble? There needs to be some responsibility brought into the system? Throwing mega billions at it just won't work.
As Ralph Klein says "How much is enough?" We spend way too much of our GDP on health care and education and both are antiquated public systems that need to be brought into the 21st century?
In the past I have done some contract work for both municipalities and dept. of highways. I have seen some of their public operations and quite frankly they are inefficient and any private contractor could go in there and shave off a whole lot of fat and do it a lot cheaper...while still making a good profit! I doubt healthcare is any different.

[craig]

The argument that there is an agenda by the provincial government to create a demand for Private health care doesn't wash. I don't think Alberta is much different than most of the other provinces when it comes to problems in delivering Health care.

[denrob]

You will never convince me that because you and I are now at a point in our life where we can afford the private insurance premiums (which is what 3rd way is talking about) to ensure timely, best practise access to health care that we deserve it anymore than if we had the misfortune to meet up with an accident or illness before we had acquired assets & $ to live off of. You will never convince me that contracting out to private companies who are NOT regulated by standards etc (by those much hated beauracrats), who then have to be regulated through the court system by lawsuits after injuries have occured is a better system. You will never convince me that contracting out to private companies who cannot afford to pay decent wages because they only win contracts if they promise to provide that care cheaply will provide better care. Wiping butts, cleaning up bodily fluids, and dealing with the demented is not glamorous work. If you can make the same $ working @ MacDonalds, the people who apply to work for the private caregiving companies will be those who have trouble getting employment elsewhere - the inexperienced, the unstable, and the dishonest. We are talking about our most vulnerable citizens here - do you really want to relegate their care to a system where answering to the shareholders is the number one priority? Did privatizing CNR improve the status of our rail lines? Did privatizing electricity make it more affordable for the people? This will be my last comments - just think seriously about what is happening.

[denrob]

denrob, those are excellent comments.