Canada West Foundation

[SASKFARMER3]

Just heard a program of live talk radio and they had a guy on from the canada west foundation.
He basically was saying that farmers are a waist of time and money in canada they do nothing for the economy in canada and are just a drain on the system.
He then went in to talk how well saskatchewan is doing in natural gas, potash, manufacturing (ipsco pipe) etc.
these are the real drivers of our economy.
Is he missing something or what.
One natural gas leaves canada and goes to the USA and makes fertilizer for US subsidised farmers Second potash goes mostly to the USA for subsidised US farmers and finally manufacturing creates pipe to build pipelines that ship oil and natural gas south that a large portion goes to subsidised US farmers.
My point being these experts come on and all the City people believe them when the numbers are broken down and one sees where most of what he is bragging up goes to subsised US farmers that is OK but HELP your own at home according to these experts is wrong
GO FIGURE!

[Horse]

With a small corection I would agree [ farmers corected to farming ]in canada is a waste of money and man power.

[cowman]

The farmers of Canada are a drag on the country for one reason? Our federal government has continually sold us out...on the world stage and at home?
Here is an example: In the 70s the price of cull cows rose to 55 cents. Then suddenly in came these huge amounts of Irish beef? The market promptly crashed and the CCA questioned why this very cheap Irish beef was allowed in? The government basically said "You have to be competitive". So the CCA went looking to find out how Irish beef could be landed in Montreal for around 25 cents...and guess what they found? The Irish beef was being subsidized 70 cents a pound! It took the government another 6 months to put a tariff on the Irish beef...by then the market was ruined!
This sort of garbage happens all the time? The latest corn fiasco is a classic example? Why buy Canadian barley when you can get subsidized US corn cheaper?
Farmers in Canada don't need subsidies. What they do need is a government that will create a level and fair playing field!

[wilagro]

What they do need is a government that will create a level and fair playing field!
So cowman where are we going to get this wonderful all-caring, all-knowing government? I have seen Liberal gov'ts and I have seen PC gov'ts and none of them measured up to expectations. Do you think that our present gov't will be any better? Don't bet your farm that this will occur. VESTED interests will prevail as always.

[SASKFARMER3]

We need a real revamp of the Agriculture Department in Ottawa.
Why?
With every change of government their is new MP but the advisors to the MP in the Ag Department dont change.
If in Canada the Farms Have been Going Down Hill and No One can see that its the Highly Subsidised US and EUC that are Killing Canadian Farmers.
Maybe the Change Should be a house Cleaning of the Ag Departments.

[cakadu]

Or maybe we need to quit trying to grow the things that others are getting subsidized for. We persist in trying to grow more of what we already can't sell at a profit to the producer.

[SASKFARMER3]

Thats a nice comment but we have changed to chick peas pinto beans tried soyabeans also into lentils peas etc.
This year all prices in tank and why
The Us started to subsidise the specialty crops.
Again how can the farmers compete against a huge giant!

[cowman]

Canadian farmers cannot compete against the US treasury. Someday the Canadian people are going to have to realize that? The federal government says "we just can't compete with EU and American subsidies. We simply do not have the money"
Is this true or is this just somemore BS? How much money is being squandered in this country on totally useless things that don't add one iota to the bottom line? If you piss all your money away in the bar or casino of course you won't have any money for food or the rent!
I believe we have had very bad government for several years and I would agree our Department of Agriculture has been especially inept! I mean how could they do much worse?
Linda: The fact is we are very limited in what we can grow? When you live in the darned Artic it is kind of hard to grow cotton or something? I guess we could put up massive greenhouses or something but not economically!
The western Canadian grainfarmer can compete with anyone in the world...if they get a level playing field...which they certainly do not have at this time? Our useless government has allowed other countries to buy our markets. The US and EU farmer isn't out competing us...but their governments are?

[SASKFARMER3]

Cowman I agree with you on this.
With my work with Ag Canada it is amazing how much waste their is.
Total Ag Budget is 5 Billion for Agriculture in Canada Sounds like a lot but look at how much you recieved or your neighbor and one soon realizes that their is huge waste somewhere in the system.
This last check will give our farm $70,000.00 Thats One sixth of the whole ag budget thats also the only check our farm has really got in the last 5 years CASIP has been a total disapointment since we have gone through Frost Drought Frost and finally no price one would figure that sooner or later you would get something out of CASIP but No.
But again back to my first comment we have programs that support the Accounting industry, CASIP also have accountants using Gov programs to subsidise their tax return process buy having the farmers join a program to look at their finances then the Accounting firm takes 2000 out of the Govt and still charges the farmer.
This is where waste happens they feel they are doing something for farmers but really they are doing something for their bottom line not farmers.
Waste waste waste.

[carebear300]

Well as per usual I have just a wee bit different outlook on this whole situation. To start with I will ask you all the question "Can Canada afford not to subsidize its farmers to the same extent as the american government does its farmers?" And before you all go off the deep end with facts and figures I would like to report on just one fact reported just recently by the news media. Agriculture in United States had its second highest year ever this past year. In contrast the canadian farmer selling onto the same world market had his worst year ever. It doesn't take any rocket scientist to see what is going to happen. As we just try and hang on up here the american farmer is renewing his equipment and keeping up with some of the new technology available which again will put us at a disadvantage from which if we are not careful in this country that agriculture will never recover. There is a distinct difference in the way the programs are administered in the states as well as ccompared to us up here in "enlightened" Canad. Down there they actually are concerned that the farmer himself derives benefit out of the programs implemented, up here we have some hairbrained notion that we can't be giving to much aid directly to farmers because they wouldn't be smart enough to put it to good use. They might even, heaven forbid, use it too their best advantage on their farm, instead of the accountants and consultants and government employees receiving the majority of the benefits. Sorry for the rant but will never sit back anymore and put up with the notion that this government can't afford to subsidize agriculture.

[r.reid]

I agree that subsidies are wrong.....BUT....I'm not going to blame the U.S. or the EU, for looking after their farmers (agree with them or not). People better wake up and realize, that we in Canada are not going to dictate our views to them...BUT...if we can't beat em, join em. Let's push for subsidies here. How do we expect compete if we aren't even on the same playing field. If they aren't going to change, then we have too. Like it or not!

Hey SASKFARMER3, What radio show was it? Who was the guest? Who was the host?

[cowman]

I guess a good part of the problem is this: How much clout does the farm vote have? Probably very little although if you look at the election the Conservatives were almost exclusively elected in rural areas!
People in the cities really don't care about what is happening down on the farm.
When you have a government that continues to see the farmer as nothing more than a peasant to be exploited...what can you expect? The cost of food has continually fallen to the point where it really isn't much of an expense at all for the average Canadian consumer. There have been huge increases in utilities, housing, transportation costs and hardly a whimper...but just let the price of food go up...and you have a major problem?
When the government scrapped the CROW they set a whole bunch of stuff in motion? Rather than stand up for the farmer and replace the CROW with something more acceptable to the WTO they folded and left the farmer at the mercy of the grain wars. The farmers saw the writing on the wall and did what they had to do to survive. They started to find a market for that grain at home. This created an immense livestock industry that could out compete the Americans? Thus we have all these games to keep our hogs and beef out of that market?
Before the CROW went Canada was a net importer of beef...now we are a major exporter!
carebear states the problem very correctly? The US farmer is moving ahead due to government policy...the Canadian farmer is slipping further behind every day. Somewhere down the road he becomes obsolete.

[cowman]

In our own province rural caucus isn't really made up of rural MLA's. About eight of them can be considered really rural and the rest represent mainly urbanized constituencies. My MLA has told me time and time again that issues that come forward regarding support for agricluture with the exception of the BSE crisis are in for a very rough ride, in both rural caucus and the caucus as a whole.

[SASKFARMER3]

Simple John Gormley Live 650 news talk out of regina and Saskatoon.
Canada West Foundation Guy I didnt get his name but every year he comes on with the Same stats how wonderful Oil Gas Mining and Ipsco is doing and how poor farmers are doing.
THey never Learn.
Also one bit of news Most Old Saskatchewan FArmers who are fed up with It are selling out but first they buy a condo in Medicine Hat then sell farm they are a resident of Alberta so Only pay Alberta tax.
Also heard of two home builders leaving regina and one in moosejaw leaving to move to Calgary and start their company up their .
Wont this NDP govt in Sask wake up and see the smart ones are just leaving and the Union and Gov workers are staying.
Sooner or later it will end.

[SASKFARMER3]

As a 25 year plus farmer I see that my lifestyle has deteriorated in the last 10 years, We have changed to Direct seeding and 10 different crops, cut back every where possible from equipment to land that wasn't producing etc.
I look at our Cousins By Fargo ND and see that they are increasing their farm Have top notch machinery, latest technology etc. Life style that is second to none.
Years ago when I was a young boy it was the other way around. About the Same time the US Farm Bill Came in and our Government started looking at Us as Second Class industry.
Iam sorry but maybe we have to do like the French farmers and then something will be done.
Also one note Big money backing a farm has a short life span.
Investment banker from New York bought buy us a few years back money no option he had every thing. Told me that since he was from a farm he wanted one when he was older and wealther. Well he got the best ones around and guess what after (frost drought frost no prices) he is selling out and gone.
Also Europeon farmers who sell out over their and move here guess what same senario their heading home after 5 years.
Wonder why Because their is no money in it at all and No Support at all.
Hey One more check out Richie Bros sale spring 06 Large 83 Quarter farm for sale in Saskatchewan. He sold out in Alberta for big bucks and is Quiting after 7 years.
Amazing.