Canada West Foundation

[cowman]

I have often wondered how come Saskatchewan keeps voting in these inept NDP governments(or Manitoba, BC for that matter)?
Now I like Saskatchewan. I like how friendly the people are there. It sometimes seems like three quarters of the people in the oil patch are former Saskatchewan farm boys!
But when I visit Saskatchewan I am always amazed at how many government buildings are in every city and how they roll up the streets at 5 PM!
Right now there is a group from Yorkton trying to get Alberta farmers to move out to that area and raise cattle? I attended this groups presentation about 3 years ago and though I had no intention of moving I was intrigued by their presentation, so took a little trip to see how it was? The area was in east central Saskatchewan and it did look like a cattlemans paradise! Very similar to central Alberta...just a lot less people! I'm not sure how many people they have attracted, but the price was certainly right!

[SASKFARMER3]

If I had a ranch in Alberta I would move to Eastern Saskatchewan and Buy up thousands of Acres. But If I was a grain farmer from alberta I wouldnt.
The land produces big yields in Eastern Sasktachewan compared to rest of the province. Because in a normal year it rains their. In a wet cool year look out the season usually ends with frost.
Land is cheaper in eastern Sasktachewan than in Brazil.
Go figure.

Yes the City folk who most came from the Country vote NDP the Rural goes Conservative.
Guess what the citys run saskatchewan.

[SASKFARMER3]

Alberta is no different. Urban MLA's outnumber the real rural ones by a huge majority and the urban centres throughout the province have a very large collective lobby for infrastructure projects, social projects etc.

[SASKFARMER3]

Saskfarmer, you took my question right out of my mouth. I was going to ask you if this was the sale I saw on Ritchie Bros. Do you know the guy personally? What happened?

[SASKFARMER3]

No I dont but he is east of us and someone with that many quarters of owned land you hear of.
Looks like he was a speculator that thought he would be able to buy cheap and then sell when farming turned around again this area land values have collapsed. No buyers left.
But after 4 bad years even a speculator realizes that he is eating away equity and maybe he should get out.
Thats what I heard.

[r.reid]

"Wont this NDP govt in Sask wake up and see the smart ones are just leaving and the Union and Gov workers are staying."

Hey SASKFARMER, don't forget Indians. They don't wander too far away. And just look at what good they do to the economy here. The NDP love em too.

OOH HOO....Can I say this??

[SASKFARMER3]

Sorry but that last comment wasn't very good.
I work with local bands that are trying to get ahead.
They see what is happening and like to get ahead to.
The head of the SFIN has last week said he will support the Sask Party in the Next Prov election.
They get it to.
Just to bad the City and Unions Don't.
One note that just blows me away Two of Regina's biggest capitalists Vote NDP.
Just have to wonder how they got where they are. is it strong business sense or have they just milked the system quietly for years.

[SASKFARMER3]

good comments Saskfarmer. There are many first nation bands in AB. that are really trying to improve their lot.,I have had the opportunity to attend environmental conferences that have been organized by some of them and have been very impressed.

[northfarmer]

very interesting chat....I have seen summaries of several global summaries of government support for agriculture, and suprisingly when all supports are measured, inlcuding the real cost of supply mgmt (dairy, eggs, bird meat, Canada does not lag far behind the other delveoped nations of the world. The challenge we have more so in Canada is the diproportionate amount of support lended to the crop production and cattle industry, which is primarily based on the prairies.

The reason is obvious, we have little national political power (seats in govt), we are divided into three prov govt's (four including BC, which pretty much ignores the grain buisness in the BC Peace), our voice as an industry is splintered into commodity groups (barley growers, oat growers, cattleman, etc), and as a result we are left to leave our prov ag departments as the key polical and industry leverage we have. Because we have money in Alberta that has not worked out so bad because at least they have the money to throw around as of late compared to the other Prarie provinces.

Consolidation of the politcal and insutry voice in primary ag will be very difficult objective, in fact it seems prov ag departments do not support such a strategy, as someone once pointed out to me, as their own role and power in the industry would be challenged.

So, I beleive the future of my farm would be best preserved by a harmonization of agricultual policy with the US, including components of the US energy strategy and support for renewable fuels. They are the single biggest market for most prairie commodities and are also the market that competes for investment in all sorts of value added processing including ethanol, biodiesel, sugar mfg, and livestock slaughter. Free movement of all ag commodities and the capital needed to value add them would go where most strategic.

Biodiesel plants, instead of being built in North Dakota, would possibly be built in Canada. SAme with some ethanol production. Beef destined from Can/US to Japan might be shipped by container port being built at Prince Rupert instead of San Fransisco/Seatle(Rupert shaves days off shipping to Japan vs. other west coast ports, and sluaghtered in Northern plains of Canada instead of mid western plains of NA).

Sure harmonization would have some major adjustment issues, but would inevitibly bring the greatest value to the western primary agriculture producers who have been hosed by the anti-americanism strategy of the past liberal governments.

We cannot out trade them, or out subsidize them, so we might as well join them. Not literally I mean, but i think you know what I mean.

PS. Michael Wilson as US Ambassador - hooray for Harper. I guy that will get inveited to go fishing with the Bush clan - this cannot hurt next time we have a ugly trade issue with the US!

[northfarmer]

hope he doesn't go quail hunting with the VP !!

[carebear300]

Did any of you notice the a recent quote for our new federal agriculture minister" The Canadian government can't afford to match the subsidies given by the american government to their farmers" It either hasn't taken the bureauacry in the agriculture department to brainwash the new minister or even worse that is what the new minister actually thinks. Either way it does not bode well for the western canadian grain farmer. Just what we needed the same old record and no action!!!!!!!!!!!

[cakadu]

Carebear, unfortunately, that is the way that many of our urban counterparts think - that agriculture doesn't really enter into the picture.

The one thing that the American producers have that we don't is support from the American people. I don't mean during the BSE crisis or anything like that because it was people looking (and still doing so) for inexpensive meat to buy.

Less than 3% of the Canadian population farms and I would say it is closer to 2% now. How do we convince the 98%, many of whom are at least one or two generations removed from the farm, if not more, that food production and the related agri-business is vital to the economy in this country?

[cowman]

I would say your 2% figure probably isn't too far off. When you consider that the gays claim 10% of the population then is it any wonder why Canada is more focussed on fruits than agriculture?
Agriculture puts a good chunk of change into the Canadian economy? Unfortunately mostly in the hands of the big corporations!
Have been reading an interesting book on Soviet Russia during the Stalin era. When the government set prices below the cost of production, the darned peasants stopped growing for the market and just grew enough for themselves? Of course this wasn't acceptable to the communist government so they forced the peasants to grow more by confiscating all their food, and letting them starve!
Of course in the great enlightened Soviet of Canada that would never happen, right?
Stalin said the peasants were traitors to the revolution because they thought they should be able to have a bit of the pie? Enemies of the state.
Is that what we have become?

[cowman]

The agricultural industry doesn't do nearly enough in my view to get the message out to urban folks about the importance of the industry, the jobs it creates etc.
Sure commodity groups like Alberta Pork are sponsoring hockey teams, etc. and are getting a very high profile but if you ask the average city dweller about the hog industry the response will likely be that hogs stink.
The pork industry injects a lot of dollars into the economy of province and are trying to raise awareness of their industry.

The ads in the major news papers about agriculture are another way to raise awareness but I am willing to bet that although they target the urban market the main readers are rural folks or those with any link to the ag industry.

Many municipalities spew forth rhetoric about the importance of agriculture and then turn their Agricultural Service Board into a rural services board that spends most of its time and energies showing small property owners how to prune their fruit trees and beautify their yards etc.

In our own county there is a train of thought that agriculture isn't even a viable industry here so why not allow subdivision of farm land anywhere in the county....trouble is that the people who are actually making their living in agriculture are reluctant to speak out against this because they feel there will be a backlash against them and lots of complaints about the way they run their operations.

The ag fieldman and the assistant fieldman aren't in favor of allowing subdivisions on better quality soils etc., so far they have been able to make an impression on the majority of council but the two councillors that really should know better are saying that it is impossible to make a living farming so why protect ag land !!! That is where folks that are concerned need to get groups like Action for Agriculture to speak at local meetings, to show that there is a way to preserve agriculture lands .

[northfarmer]

Funny that Strahl would categorically say that already, but i did agree with a Bylfield editorial of late that if the new govt is to succeed in its agenda it will need to a house cleaning at the senior and mid level of beuracracy in Ottawa for things to really start to change.

Frustrates me that the hyprocrisy of our trade position at the WTO extends to our treatmnet of ag industries. The feds have no problem defending certain segments of our ag industry with tremendous support, exceeding that of trading partners, when in others , like grain and oilseeds, we simply cannot even think of matching them.

On the issue of the urban perspective, I am sick and tired of defending what little govt support our grain and oilseeds industry gets to others involved in other industries. Politicians are quick to get the message out about how much cash they have allocated to farmers. Then the media portrays it as a handout. While there are very few farmers as a percentage of the pop, those big dollars ( often expressed as multi year committments), once spread out and with the costs associated to aminsiter them, do not amount to as much for the individual as the media would almost make it out to be.

Furthermore, though same people I engage in the debate with rarely acknowledge the level of govt direct involvement in their own industry. Take for example our protected publishing and cututral indistries, oil and gas exploration, etc. When oil and gas was hurting with low price for oil and little development they got huge royalty and tax incentives that were worth billions by now. Often this money went right to the bottom line of the gloabl shareholders. Not that I oppose such industry incentives, they stimulate and promote economic activity and wealth for our country. The media portrays them as economic stimulation or industry support. In our industry it is called a handout, subsidy, or bail out to help the poor pitiful farmers. I do not blame the media alone, as our politicians often couch the money in terms to give the same inpression, stricly for their own personal gain.

Hats off to Alberta Agric for announcing just recently a strategy for exploring new capital alternatives such as flow through shares and income tax based incentives for producers and other investors to particpate in bioindustry initiatives for primary crop alternative uses. Mining and oil and gas have had these for years as growth and capital stimulants.