Class Action

[Horse]

there is an uproar by the Alberta Wilderness Association due to the sale of public lands in the Peigan Environmentally Significant Area.
Apparently Soderglen Ranches Ltd. is converting public land leases to deeded lands to accommodate a wind farm.

[ivbinconned]

"shouldnt be a problem, seeing as the lease holders are just renting grass anyway."

No horse...they are managing property!
I smell something here...and I think it is envy!

I feel that if I rent property I should have the freedom to obtain income from it as best I can and then pay the taxes due from any profit I make!

And if I can get a higher grazing fee than horse wants to pay...more power to me!

It could also be argued that if I am the "steward" (caretaker)of crown land then perhaps the public should not charge me anything for the use of it... but pay me rather to take care of it!

This notion of user pay was abandoned along time ago with the building of government roads, like horse having a shorter distance to town than cowman, or schools, hospitals, etc, etc, etc.

You are a purist horse, looking for the utopia of equality of potential among producers...you will be looking for along time, and you will never ever be content.

Perhaps the guys that get the breaks...god bless them...will help with the hospital project and curling rink and other local charities as well as support all the endevours of their local comunities. Many do...they do not horde their money they spend it...I am happy for them.

There are many other blatant injustices perpatrated on producers such as the freedom to sell your own product to who ever you please.

If you are looking for the government to level the playing field, soon no one will play.

[Horse]

Ivbenconed and blessed sounds like. I can just see you renting out your land and letting someone else get the oil revenue I think not but what you are saying is dont rock the boat it may hurt your income.
Envey o how easy it is to use that as a come back Just mabey I realy think the gov is doing a piss poor job of looking after our natural resources Every one asks where are the young people well land is to high to buy and some old farts have all the lease land tied up, how many of the lease holders paid anything for thier leases not many unless it is in the family and just a paper trail, When these leases were originaly let it was for GRASS this oil thing is relativly new and was never intended as a welfare state for the "Ranchers" I do realize it would cramp some peoples style if they realy had to make thier money off cattle , but isnt that farming one set back arter another.

[cowman]

Horse: You say the minister could just up the rates to what the private sector is charging? Would that be the same minister who is Jack Horners nephew?! Now whether he has an interest in any grazing leases or not it is sure possible the rest of the family might? Very,very unlikely that will ever happen!
I agree the whole thing is a scandal, but it is doubtful anything will happen as long as Klein is still in office? There are some pretty huge scandals already about some of the sweetheart deals some politicians gave to oil companies on public land? Blatant kickbacks and graft. I guess I'd rather see some old boy get the money that some slimy politician.

[ivbinconned]

Oh...so this is about the other revenues!!! Took some prodding to flush that out.

No...I do not have any "other revenue" off my lease land and like I said I do not let it eat me up that others do. Others have more productive land...others get more rain, others were grandfathered into their operations while others have had to borrow.

I guess you could move to Saskatchewan horse and I will bet that where ever you LIVE there, you could by twice as much here...with the same money. BUT THAT WOULD NOT BE FAIR!!

At least you have a government that manages poorly, here we have nothing to manage.

[Horse]

Spin it any way you want ivbenconed it still boils down to a sweethart deal .Do you realy think 1.79/AUM is a reasonable price to pay . AS for moving to Sask why not just stick my nose up some politicans ass and colect welfare here , no sence disrupting my life when there is the same crap here just a diferent pile.

[Horse]

Cowman you had best not complain to much or how can you justify $1000 per day, and what happened to the CROW didnt the politicions shoot it?

[Horse]

Horse my view of the leases on public lands is the following:

Leaseholders should be compensated for damages, loss of use of land etc., but the annual rental should go to the province to be set aside to be used for improving native rangelands under control of the province etc.

I do not think that people should be allowed to sell grazing leases. When the user is done with the lease it should be leased to the highest bidder in a tendering process. That is where the sytem is askew in my opinion. How can someone sell something that belongs to all Albertans ???

I have no quarrel with the price paid by leasees, because they have to fence and improve the pastures, provide water sources etc.

[nicolaas]

Leaseholders should be compensated for damages, loss of use of land etc.


I agree emerald, compensations in the range of what they pay for the lease, such as 1.79/AUM .... maybe 10- 20 bucks per year?? corresponding to the amount of grazing that is actually taken away? After all, a typical oil lease does not disturbe that much grazing land. EUB keeps a short leash on the oil Co.'s wrgs to spills and cattle can graze quite close around the pumpjack/well head. I am curious as to who the spineless politician was who allowed payment for oil leases to happen, as well as buying/selling leases? That money is the tax payers money. It does seem to be corrupt and indefensible. I cannot see the status quo to continue for too much longer as more urban people wake up to this fact.
Enjoy it while it lasts!!!

[nicolaas]

The Thurber committee came up with some fairly huge proposed changes. I think there is a significant change in what is paid for oil revenue and there is now the issue of public access after the grazing season which wasn't there before, other than that leaseholders are still allowed to sell leases and have the last refusal if the proposed land is to be sold outright by the government.

[cowman]

The fact is the courts ruled a crown grazing lease is real property. Now you may not agree with the court...just like the drug dealer might think cocaine should be legalized...but that is the law of the land?
If you defend the rights of private property and you defend the law of the land, then you very well may need to change the law if you don't agree with it?
Good luck.
Horse: You ornery old bugger! Now what does my toiling like a slave have to do with the darned government? You are comparing apples to oranges.

[Horse]

Strange we dont have the right to own property under the constution but we have the right to own public land.Only in Alta eh.