Alberta surplus

[blackjack]

cakadu and wilagro ...the next generation of entrepreneurs will figure away unless they have so many laws and taxs to curtail their acheivements...

[blackjack]

Things are happening so fast in Alberta that there haven't been any sober second thoughts about the long term impact on the province. Sure the resource industries fuel the economy and employ many people, but, cities and major urban centres in resource based areas can't begin to keep up to the demand for infrastructure, streets, roads, utilities etc.
Our highways are falling apart, and seem to be getting worse by the day lately.
We see special interest groups having to band together to fight every way they can to protect environmentally sensitive areas ( EG: Pekisko Landowners Group) and the numerous groups that are fighting the location of the large transmission line.

Anyone who hasn't seen the Wabumun area, should see what mega coal mining projects do to the landscape, then after the mining is done the country side can enjoy the chamomile that grows there forever !!!

I agree we need the resource extraction in this province or we would be in tough shape, but our government needs to have a vision for the future of the enviromnent and the generations that follow.
If we continue to spend like drunken sailors the quick bucks that are being made today will only be the subject of bedtime stories for kids in twenty years.

[cowman]

Well usually in most businesses you go with your strengths? You produce all you can when the market is good?
The fact is the age of oil and gas are coming to an end? There is better technology out there and in reality the oil and gas industry has done everything in its power to hold back that technology?
Consider Ralphs "clean coal" technology? Could keep Alberta ahead of the pack for another century? How about solar, bio gas, hydrogen? Wouldn't it make sense to invest in those energy sources?
What might have happened if we had been able to keep our wealth and invest it in new technology instead of being forced to finance the welfare state down east? What might have happened if we had been allowed to become a center for technology, instead a hewer of wood and a drawer of water? Do you really think the people of Ontario and Quebec have an inherent right to have all the manufacturing/technology base, propped up by the federal government, while our destiny is to provide them with cheap fuel, lots of money and a protected market? Because quite frankly that is the history of Canada!
The legacy we leave our children and grandchildren won't be whether we used up all the oil or gas, because that won't matter...it will be an obsolete commodity! The real loss will be that we let the wealth be stolen away to prop up a social welfare state, that kept us down and allowed our oppressors to flourish?

[cowman]

Martha Kostuch made Ralph look fairly dumb when she commented that there is no such thing as clean coal !!!!!
Ralph said that we already have clean coal fired power plants and that isn't true.
Ralph's advisors need to pay closer attention to fact before they brief him on what to say.
Cowman if you think that all the ideas the premier is putting forth are his own you will also believe in the tooth fairy.
Klein's proposals on anything are the programs and legislation that government bureaucrats want to see in place.
Case in point the proposed Integrated Land Use Policy Framework currently in the think tank stage.
Guess who is selecting the participants in the think tank ???
Its not the Premier, Ministers or even Deputy Ministers, its a handful of bureaucrats that have had a MISSION for years !!!!1

[cowman]

Well emerald, first of all I should be honest and tell you, like most people involved in the oil patch, Martha should be taken out in the woods and shot! Really she doesn't have a clue...and frankly she doesn't want to have a clue...never did, never will!
Now having said that.... there is a place for dissension! Without a doubt the oil and gas business, at times, have not been the best environmental citizens! I'm definitely not here to say that. I didn't just fall off the turnip wagon yesterday?
Everything in this life is a balancing act and hey we all have to live with the consequences? Has everything been just peachy? Well no it hasn't. But we really don't need the Marthas of this world to dictate to us? I don't say she doesn't have a place. She is a "conscience", if you will? She does raise some questions that need to be addressed....but she sure as hell isn't God that we need to fall down and worship!

[wilagro]

cowman quote: The real loss will be that we let the wealth be stolen away to prop up a social welfare state, that kept us down and allowed our oppressors to flourish?

Where did you come by this "myth" that our wealth is being stolen to prop up a social welfare state? If you believe that proposition, then I would say that you have been hanging around the wrong people. This is doublely (spellin') so if you heard this from oilmen.

Every time that I hear this old refrain about 'stolen' money, I wonder as to who is spreading this crap.

[Horse]

Wilagro it all depends on who is buttering your bread ,none of these oil men sem to care if our wealth is stolen and sent south of the border.
The solution is to shut down all other business and we all go into the oil business isnt that the retort that always comes when someone brings up the fact that a few are doing very well thank you.
And before you agree cowman what about those of us that are to old to start over I guess the kind thing would be to just shoot us because there is on golden lining in all this oil revenue for a hell of a lot of us have you looked at your utilitie bills and machinery and repairs and wages when you need something done not many people unless you have an indexed pension put enough away to sustain a high quality of life ,I think in my working career my top wage was mabey $2.50 and raised kids and farmed so mabey I was a poor manager but I dont see any place to make a lot of savings to live in a $30.or more wage enviroment,oops my fault I should have been born rich or had a family that mabey homesteaded close to Red Deer or Calgary them there wouldnt be any shortage or money.

[Horse]

cowman, I don't know if you have ever had the opportunity to have a dialogue with Martha or not. I know her personally and have dealt with her on a municipal issue years ago. She did more for the people of Alberta than you will ever realize with her work on the Lodgepole Blowout. She does know what she is talking about, she researches everything and is backed by groups that are not nearly as radical as some out there.

One thing for sure, anyone that has tried to do an end run around Martha regarding the environment has paid the piper one way or the other. The current government has finally realized its better to work with her and the people she represents than to ignore her concerns.

She is currently part of an ideas group looking at the proposed land use issues in the Oil Sands region, at the request of the provincial government.

All too often it is 'cool' to downplay the credibility of people who don't agree with resource industries. I, for one, don't necessarily always agree with Martha and the stand she takes but I have ultimate respect for her knowledge of environmental issues.

[cowman]

Horse: A lot of what you say is true! I won't argue that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth...well maybe decent plate! LOL
However, I was raised very clearly with the idea that the world didn't owe me a living and anything I might get as a gift from my family wasn't mine to squauder at will! As my Dad said when he started giving me land "You aren't getting this to piss away. You get to use it and then you pass it on. Its not yours and it wasn't mine."
And I have followed those instructions and I gave the same lecture to my son when I gave it to him.
I never pursued a carreer in the oil patch. I just sort of fell into it? An oil company wanted a pipeline worked up and seeded on my Dads place. I did it and they must of figured I was okay because soon I was doing all their reclamation work! From there it took off and then I pursued it diligently! I got to know a lot of people and I worked the crowd! I became the "go to guy"! Along the way I made a lot of freinds and I always gave prompt service and a top notch job, while trying to be reasonable in what I charged. Fair value for fair labor is always a good way to operate?
And in spite of your rather dim view of the oil and gas industry, you must realize that you and everyone living in Alberta(or Canada for that matter) benifits from the industry? When you pay your low Alberta taxes...you should thank the oil patch. When you get farm subsidies quite a bit higher than Sask. and Manitoba...you should thank the oil industry. When you drive the good roads...you should thank the oil industry. When you visit our modern cities, when you need to go to our modern hospitals, when your children go to the schools and universities....you should thank the oil industry! And also you should thank the politicians and statesmen of the past who had the foresight to create an environment where this industry could flourish? And I'll give you a little hint...it wasn't the NDP or Liberals!
And finally just to set the record straight: My family did not homestead any land around Red Deer...they bought if from the CPR and when they came there were no roads and Red Deer was just a wide spot by the river.

[cowman]

cowman, the advice your father gave you about the land would be well served on resource companies as well.
The land isn't ours to **** and pillage its ours to utilize to sustain ourselves and hopefully generations to follow.
As a province we need to be more vigilant about how the land is being used, because they aren't making any more of it.
Most of the best soil in Alberta is under concrete, so the rest needs to be cared for.

[cakadu]

Don't forget the flip side cowman. As emrald says we are only custodians of all the land. Our post-secondary students pay some of the highest tuition in the country - all this money floating around and you would think they could be paying a whole lot less.

1 in 3 jobs in Alberta is generated through either primary production or some form of agri-business. Farming was the backbone of the country long before oil ever came along.

Not all roads are really good, many are being sacrificed so all this oil exploration can go on. We are leaving an as yet unknown footprint on the landscape, we have seriously depleted our water resources and the oil industry IS reponsbile for millions of gallons being taken out of the hydrological cycle forever.

There is no doubt that things are good in the province and we have an awful lot to be grateful for. We also have a long way to go to sustain what we have into the future.

[cakadu]

Oh and let's not ever loose sight of the fact that even if I wanted to preserve what I have and try and make it better for future generations, I have absolutely no say in whether or not that can happen. If someone decides they want to try and get at whatever I have under my land, or use my land to get to other resources i.e. a power line, I cannot stop them. I have to take what is decided is best for me and the compensation can in no way make up for what I know and believe is being lost.

But it's all good, right?!?!?!

[cakadu]

Linda are you aware of the groups that is amalgamating to oppose the power line ? I have had some discussion with the chairman of the local group and apparently they are having a meeting soon to get things rolling.

[cakadu]

I am aware of one group in my area but not of too many others, but I'm sure there are many forming.

I also haven't heard if the Terms of Reference for the EIA are in fact completed. Anyone who submitted comments on the proposed Terms were to get a copy of the final document and be advised as to when the EIA was going to be released for tender. Has anyone heard?

[cowman]

Well excuse me if I am wrong here...but isn't this a "done deal"?
I wonder if it is a "done deal" then why bother opposing it? Has the government ever changed its way of thinking once a project gets the green light?
I'm old enough to remember when the government decided to build the Dixon dam? There was some pretty strong opposition from a lot of the people in the area? They had a big story about "That Damned DAM" in all the papers, protests, petitions etc.? But the government had made up their mind and just bulled it through!
Now I would suggest the same thing is happening here? I think the government has made up its mind, and no matter what... that line is going to be built? Or is that wrong?