Health Care again!

[cakadu]

If they can explain to me how taking doctors out of an already badly strained and under-staffed public system and letting them work in a private system is going to help the public system and alleviate backlog, then I'll be willing to take a look at it.

If they can explain to me how long it will take before the private system gets backlogged and wait times increase and what they plan to do to ensure that the same thing doesn't happen on that side of the equation, without loosing any quality of service there, then I'll be willing to listen.

From a devil's advocate standpoint - if we can take resources and revenue away from future generations without any concern for the fact that it belongs to them too, then what is the problem with letting them have the tax burden as well?

We want it all and we want it all now, with little or no thought for subsequent generations.

[cakadu]

Cowman, it won't necessarily be entrepreneurs that are building these clinics - there are many entities from the U.S. and elsewhere eager to build here. Are people going to be against big medical corporations as well?

[cowman]

Linda: I wonder what the turn around time would be in a private clinic? I wonder how much the cost would be compared to a public hospital? I wonder if the incentive of more money might inspire the doctor to do more surgery?
Maybe I don't get it or something? Maybe Ralph is a complete liar when he says the private/public system will cut waiting times, lower costs, allow the public system to continue? How is it so evil to have a system where you pay something to have minor surgery done? Surgery that isn't life threatening? Do we pay for dental? Do we pay for that minor surgery?
In reality this is a pretty small deal? It is not like we are talking heart surgery here or something?
I am not against big corporations. The fact is quite often they are more efficient than the Mom and Pop shop...and in reality as a taxpayer...don't we want the best bang for our buck? If the big corporation can deliver the service cheaper than an over bloated public system then I say good for them!
You know everybody curses Walmart...while they shop there! Why? Because they can deliver a better price, and usually a better service! That is why they are what they are...because they do it better than anyone else!

[cowman]

cowman, I would hope that we don't get a Walmart health care system !!! Walmart is lowpriced, mass produced goods, and fairly low paid staff !!!

I have no problem with private clinics as long as doctors don't have the opportunity to work in both. Do you really think that a patient will get the same care in a public hospital ?

I also wonder where the health care professionals will come from to staff all the private clinics and new hospitals that Ralph is hell bent on building.

If the 'third way' is passed into legislation then why would there be a need for two new hospitals ten minutes apart in Sherwood Park and Fort Sask., unless there is intent to rent out space in public hospitals to private clinics.
And that is something I do not agree with !

[cowman]

Well I really don't see the problem with a doctor working in the private clinic or the public system? Either way he gets paid a fee from the government? The only difference is the government isn't providing him a workplace in the private clinic?
In fact, I would suggest the doctor should be paying a fee for using the public hospital?
We do have a mix, right now of private health care? The doctor is a private contractor to the public system? If he was an employee he would be getting a salary...not billing the government for services rendered?
Where would we get the extra doctors? Well if it was so lucrative...maybe we would get them from all over? Right now nurses are in big demand in certain US states and they go where the money is? Its called the market? If we have the right to sell our products to the highest bidder and think that is okay, then our labor force should have the same right?
In reality we've been doing this for years? We've been enticing doctors from all over the world with better money? How many of our doctors came from the UK, Ireland and South Africa? And also how many of our doctors left for a better lifestyle in the USA?
If the money is there...we won't have to worry about getting enough doctors!
It is all very well to say we believe in free public health care, but the fact is if we are dead how good is FREE? If you can't get fixed up, who cares if it is free?
There is already two tiered health care. If you get sick and want to live you go to the USA for your best chance? That is already an option. Now maybe it will break you...but that is your choice? You can keep your money and die or you can take a chance and maybe live?
Klein has put it out there? Why is it so evil? What is with this attitude of "We all have to die together...come what may?"
The really sad part is people aren't thinking this through and are being brainwashed by some "utopian dreamers" and big unions who like the gravy train?
In my own opinion there is nothing the public sector can do that can't be done better and cheaper by the private sector?
And yes Walmart can be sneered at and all kinds of faults can be found! But the fact is, FOR THE CONSUMER, they give the best deal? That is why they are the biggest retailor in the world!
Everyone has the option of not shopping there if they don't like it. Just like everyone will have the option of not going to a private clinic?

[blackjack]

... i knew cowman would print out a great post... how can the rest of you argue for a system that is rated 32nd in the world for its effiency and want to hold on to it like a sacred cow... why not be the country that can be honestly #1 in the world at delivering health care instead of pretending to tell its people that we are...

[cakadu]

Help me out then cowman - if the private clinic gets paid by the government then is it any different than the public system? I thought the whole point of the private clinic was that the customer would pay whatever price he/she had to in order to get treated sooner and hopefully more efficiently?

Without any details, cowman, how can you argue for a particular system? What I have asked in my previous post are some fundamental questions - if they can answer them, I'll make the judgement as to whether or not I can live with it. Right now we have absolutely no detail as to what it will look like.

We have been promised for TWO years that there will be a public consultation on the Third Way. We couldn't do it prior to the last election because it was too complex for us folk to grasp prior to the election. Telling people to go and visit a website for comment is not public consultation. Having nothing to base comments on is also not public consultation.

I wouldn't call hip and knee replacement minor surgery. Getting a tooth yanked is, but there can be plenty of rehabilitation after a hip replacement.

Another point that needs clarification is that the people get operated on in a private clinic and then would their rehabilitation take place in the public system i.e. going to physio etc.

Bottom line is that we have no detail and therefore cannot make an informed decision. If it were that simple, shouldn't we have been given the detail by now?

[wilagro]

Ralph treats us like mushrooms.

If you haven't figured that out yet, just ask your neighbour.

[blackjack]

...well wilagrow i think its the bureaucrats and the docs that keep you in the dark...and you left wing think tanks can't seem to get enough of their crap...

[cowman]

Well Linda I will agree...the whole situation isn't really much different at all than the public system? So why are people going nuts over it? It is just a small tweaking of the system, not wholesale slaughter?
What was the original intention of medi-care? Was it to take away peoples responsibility for their own lives and turn them into wards of the state...or was it to make sure they weren't wiped out financially when they got sick?
Where is the accountability today? Why not be a drunk, smoke like a chiminey, get fat as a hog...the government will pay!
My own idea on the situation is this: Compulsory medical insurance, regulated by the state. Just like your car insurance?
Now if you want to pound down a bottle of whisky every day, smoke a couple of packs of cigarettes, eat ten big Macs...then perhaps your premium might be higher? And if you want to trot off to the doctor everytime you have a hangnail...then maybe you wouldn't have any deductible...and of course pay more? If you wanted to keep your cost reasonable( as in your car insurance) then you might have $500 or $1,000 deductible or whatever worked for you?
No need to have a big government beuracracy administrating the whole thing...Mutual of Omaha will do it cheaper and better than a bunch of fat civil servants?
Now of course that won't be happening, here in the great white north, as we have slipped way to far into this concept that the government knows best and will be there to baby us for life?
But eventually if we don't do something to get this health care spending back in control the public system will collapse in on itself, where we will get no healthcare...just the bill!
And I will agree we don't know all the details? Before Ralph can even lay them out the scream goes up from all the lefties "Spend more money!"...not improve anything...just "Spend more money"!
I am sorry but "Spend more money" just doesn't cut it anymore. This province spends too much money on this problem already and spending more will just encourage the parasites working the system to ask for more!
Frankly I am glad my premier is trying to find a solution by spending less! Lord knows he hasn't kept a tight fist on the purse strings for quite awhile!
If you consider that a government is nothing more than a management team we hire to protect our assetts...then I would ask...how are they doing? Do we want them to blow two thirds of our revenue on something that obviously isn't working(education and healthcare)? Don't you think we should ask them to be fiscally responsible and allocate our revenue to our needs? How good would it be if we spent all our money on education and healthcare...but the roads were so poor that we couldn't get to the hospital or school...or get to our jobs so we could pay the parasites! There has to be some common sense brought into this province.

[cowman]

Dinning is quoted as saying that everyone should have a health spending account. If that account would include the choice to spend portions of it on alternative health care and supplements I am all for it.
If I choose massage therapy and chiropractic over pain killers and muscle relaxants then I should be able to be reimbursed.
If I choose homopathic/herbal remedies to keep my chronic asthmatic condition under control vs visits to emergency, expensive prescription drugs then I am saving the health care system mega dollars. At this point it is costing me a lot of money out of my pocket. If a health spending account would pay a portion then I am all for it but I haven't seen that in Klein's proposal as of yet.

[cowman]

Oh and by the way Linda: If I could I would drink like a fish, smoke my brains out, and eat like a hog!
Unfortunately fate said no you can't! Darned rotten Scottish genetics!
My natural inclinations would be a creature of hedonism! Sometimes life just isn't fair.

[cowman]

GOOD LORD cowman, what is the world coming to. You baring your soul and telling us that you would be a fat, cigar smoking, souse if you could !!!!!

GEEZ, and here I envisioned you as a non smoking version of the Marlboro Man !!!!!LOL.

Now, I have never had a desire to smoke my brains out on anything, and as for drinking myself stinko, I have never felt the need, but as for needing to shed a few pounds, well, I don't eat properly, don't eat enough veggies, fruit etc. So that portion of my lifestyle needs work !!!

[cakadu]

Cowman, we could all probably do a much better job of looking after ourselves. It would seem to me that as we age we tend to think more abour how to keep healthier so that we can live longer.

You do bring up a good point though about genetics. Some people have congenital defects, are they to be lumped in with those who don't look after themselves properly? Others are genetically predisposed to things like heart problems, diabetes etc. How do you treat them?

We also all do things in our youth that may or may not catch up with us as we age. I seem to be paying the price now for being quite athletic in my youth, although I am told I am likely having fewer problems than I would had I not been so physically active.

I agree - people have to take responsibility for their own lives and mitigate any potential problems as much as they can. Having said that though there is only so much you can do about some diseases.

Personally I believe that chocolate should be it's own food group and that is probably my biggest vice. Will I stop eating it entirely - likely not - but I can be sensible about how much of it I do eat and balance it with the things I am supposed to eat.

The difficulty that I can see is finding the balance between what we ourselves are responsible for and have control over versus those things that we really don't have much control over at all.

[cakadu]

I have a lady working for me part time, who is getting an AISH pension. She is allowed to make $400 per month over and above her pension.

She was born with a spinal defect, has respiratory problems and is obese. She was recently diagnosed as having diabetes and has lost nearly 50 pounds since that time.Much of her obesity is caused from severe thyroid problems.

She is fiercely independent, and tries to get by with very little. She drives a 20 year old vehicle, and rents a small mobile home. She has an education degree but has never been able to obtain a teaching position.

She pays for 40% of her medications for a respirator, which amount to $75.00 per month, so by the time she pays rent, utilities and her food she really hasn't much left to spend on emergencies such as replacing a tire, etc.

She is one of many people who use the health care system out of necessity, and she is really trying to rise above her handicaps. When she approached AISH for assistance with paying her medications they told her to move into a city and live in shared accommodation to save money. She could have back surgery to attempt to correct some of the problems, but she really has nobody to look after her afterward. I guess if she had the money she could have the surgery in a private hospital and stay in some sort of recovery centre.....but she doesn't have the funds to do so.