Synergy Group

[cakadu]

I have to agree with emrald about the county and their savings cowman. What did they save $1.5 million on? Not having to make payments and do maintenance on aging equipment? Without seeing the books and being told specifically what is saved and what is being spent in other areas, it is very difficult to know if we are any further ahead. Don't forget, if you tell yourself something long enough you just might begin to believe it.

What I do know is that we now wait longer than we used to when it comes to getting the roads graded and/or plowed. This last big snowfall saw us waiting at least 4 or 5 days to get any sort of plowing done.

With respect to your reference to the car dealerships - have you seen what sorts of deals they are offering these days just to try and move vehicles? I wouldn't say things are too rosy there.

Yes, we are all benefitting from this surge in the economy. Remember though, what goes up must inevitably come down. How hard is the crash going to be this next time?

[cakadu]

Cowman, Linda makes a valid point when she says that citizens of the county wait longer for road maintenance, snowplowing etc.

Anytime a municipality pats themselves on the back for saving money, if that money is saved by cutting services to their citizens, then what kind of saving is it ???

When I was on council we looked at every possible measure to save money on road maintenance, including contracting out all grader beats. As I have indicated here before we did contract out one for a two year trial period and it cost more than running our own equipment, plus the damn thing was in my division and the phone never stopped ringing with people complaining about the time it took to get roads snowplowed, the lack of consistent grading etc.

In my view citizens of rural Alberta have a right to expect snow removal from local roads in as expedient and efficient manner. Not only is it a required service under the Municipal Government Act it is also necessary to allow traffic to flow, such as school busses, emergency vehicles and citizens going to and from work. Any cut back on that service is NOT a cost saving, it is having the bottom line look better on the backs of the citizens.

[cowman]

Well like I said I'm only going with what I'm told? My Reeve, councillor, and the CAO all say they save $1.5 million a year.
Now without a doubt privatization fits my own personal philosophy so maybe I am biased?
Also Linda, your grader/snowplow thing didn't change when they privatized a few years ago? Red Deer County had contract plows for a long time before they ever re-organized public works and field services...except for two areas right around Red Deer which were still County graders?
Now in my area the young operator is probably the best one we've ever had? He just does a darned good job! You must remember these contract operators don't make the decision when they go out or how often they go out, that is a decision made by a county employee?

[cowman]

emerald: I would also point out that a cutback on service, is a saving! I guess the important thing here is "is that service essential"?
When the county was a public service if a sign got knocked down the sign truck was out the next day? Now they put up temporary ones if it is a stop sign or a yield sign, but not if it is something not all that important? About once a month the sign truck goes out and makes its rounds and replaces all knocked down signs. They usually do it when they can free up some employees. The temps are put up by the county contract co-ordinator who patrols the roads every day.
The net result is there is a big saving? Now maybe the service is not as good but it is better economics than having two employees drive 60 miles to replace one sign everyday!
And I hate to tell you but if one person lives on a two mile stretch of road it doesn't need to be graded as often as a major market road close to Red Deer? Basically it is just common sense? And common sense is not something a public system is too heavy on? Just my opinion.

[cowman]

I guess it depends on whether or not it is you that resides on that stretch of road.

I always held the view that all taxpayers of the county were to be treated equal. If we spent a large sum upgrading service to a hamlet one year then that same amount was to be applied to road construction, shoulder pulling or backsloping on rural roads in my division the next, and if the folks in the hamlet started to squak because they weren't getting another major project I told them that fair is fair, and people who live away from the HIVE have rights to, we all live in the same county.

Now, unfortunately, my councillor lives in the hamlet and pushes for everything to happen there. walkways for five miles to town, heated shelters for the outdoor skating rink, lighting everywhere etc., plus mega dollars have been injected into the existing community hall and he is on the hunt for a new building and wants tax dollars injected into it !!!!

Cutting services may be a saving but if that is the way councils decide to go they should campaign on that vs running around promising the moon and then wielding the axe in the first budget after they are elected !!!

[cowman]

And Emerald, they did campaign on that? They actually campaigned on going to a private system?
Lindas division was a clear example. The guy who was for privatization beat out the old guy who was not. It was probably the most black and white division around on this issue?
Now I will admit the old pro public system guy came back and beat out the new guy next time around...privatization wasn't all rosy and some mistakes were made at first! I believe they have most of the bugs worked out now and I doubt few people would want to go back to the old system?
And by the way in the last election, in Lindas riding, the pro privatization guy got back in with a huge majority?

[cowman]

Also Emerald: I think most people are generally pleased with the course Red Deer County has taken, not only with privatization, but the fact that council has been innovative and bold! Things are happening here, whether right or wrong, they aren't afraid to be out front and ahead of the pack?
The council is so far ahead of the likes of the city of Red Deer it isn't even funny!
I know every member of council personally and believe they are all good people doing what they think is right. I might not agree with everything they do but I applaud the effort and committment they put into running the county. They have done a good job. Just my opinion.

[cowman]

cowman, your council has no choice but to be forward thinking, with the phenomenal growth the county is experiencing.

I would certainly doubt that, given the huge assessment, there is much need to cut services such as grading local roads and snowplowing in a timely manner.

Those are core services to rural ratepayers, and the lack of those services is what makes councillors phone ring !! Mind you, some of the councillors may have mostly urbanites in their division with paved roads that naturally get attention first when it snows. In my county there is one division like that and the councillor hasn't had a complaint about snow removal, and of course none about grading !!! Funny thing though, he is the first one to support equal service to other divisions even it it means voting against something in his own division if he feels it is being unfair to others.

[cakadu]

My tax dollars are collected every single year and along with those tax dollars comes services that I am to be provided. If I cannot get down my road to get to my job, get to a doctor, get groceries or God forbid, deal with some sort of emergency then I am not getting what I am paying for. I have the right for clear access to roads just the same as you or anyone else does. Where I am located should not make one iota of difference.

[cakadu]

The Municipal Government Act charges municipalities with the maintenance of all public roadways. Now what level of service is provided is,in my view, what the public will tolerate.

In 2001 our council had one change and then the majority of council decided that they would get rid of one grader, and one plow truck and put all the spare change into paving roads, some in front of their own property, which coincidentally were not on the priority list !!!

For that entire term of council it took an average of 7-8 days to get roads open, and the public was up in arms.

The Reeve of that time ran as elected Reeve and got defeated 3 votes to 1 !!!

The new council reinstated the road maintenance priorities and since that time things have improved although they still could be better.

The road priorities for snow plowing are:
Paved local roads ( sanding is done on these first as well)
School bus routes
Hamlets
Country Residential Subdivisions then local roads.

Municipal priorities are a juggling act, but essential services should never be used as pawns in the process !!

[cowman]

Linda I find your reasoning kind of funny...not because you believe it but because what this one neighbor told me?
He was bitching about the roads one day after he hit a pot hole when he was going like a bat out of hell(He always drives like he's at the Indy 500) and lost a hubcap. He said he figured with the high taxes he was paying the darned road should be paved! I said well how much taxes are you paying and he gave me a figure. I said well that should take care of a couple of hundred feet, so who's going to pick up the rest! He said he thought pavement should be cheaper than that but I said well I don't think so? Anyway he phoned into Border paving and asked them what the cost of pavement was and got a rude education on true costs!
The snow plow gets around here whenever he can and you have to remember he has a lot of miles to plow? Actually if it is really bad usually the guy going around plowing out the oil leases puts the blade down and keeps the roads open! Just one more small benifit from your friendly local oil company?
A couple of years ago the spouse had to get out to the airport so I got the tractor out and plowed her out. I usually end up plowing a trail up to the other place anyway.

[cowman]

I wouldn't accept the excuse that the plow has so many miles to do, if thats the case and they can't provide adequate service then they need to add another beat !!