Are Canadian Farmers the Next Fisherman.

[cakadu]

Lets see now, the Quebec producers work together through UPA, get things accomplished and get what they want. The operative word is that they work TOGETHER.

We are so bent on being independent here in the West that unless and until agriculture can start to speak with one voice, or at least with a few less voices, then we will get nowhere.

The challenge shouldn't be how to have Quebec get less, but how we can do better by all of us out here in the West. What solutions do you see for that - beyond separating.

[northfarmer]

I am shocked at the deal in Que on wheat.....good for them, did not have a clue...and I thought it was only supply management that paid the bills..

..by they way, Stormnorm, thanks for piping up.......

..i have always had a problem with the double standards of grain marketing, the different grain marketing structures that can exist in Canada, the CWB state, ON and now the deal in Que.

Good for ON to muck it up on the issue, we should do the same and demand answers from Strahl and Harper...the West wants in on the deal........national farm policy my butt!!!

[SASKFARMER3]

I to have to say good for Quebec for getting their farmers a good deal. The more I dig into the CASIP debacle the more it points to dear old Saskatchewan NDP for screwing their own farmers. In Quebec they had a group of GOVT employees go out and do every ones first year of CASIP it was on a computer program so when the guy left you were told what you would get. By getting the first year right the next years were easy. The cost was nothing for the first year and a marginal cost for the second.
Saskatchewan Govt was given the option but they refused. So now any one who can afford to pay a good accountant to work the program will get paid. any bottom feeder farmer who cant afford the program will loose out. Also Rev Canada had way to many people sitting in on the CASIP review committee and that is another problem.
We are getting Screwed in the WEST and No one seems to CARE!
Farmers dig deeper into some of these stories and you will find a grain of truth.
We were had again by not sticking together with one voice and just plowing ahead because we are independent thinkers. Sorry that's what they want and slowly we will be taken one by one.
That is the Reality of the situation.

[cowman]

I don't know why people might be shocked that Quebec gets this support? That is how the game has been played for a long time? And give those French farmers their due...they know how to put the bite on their politicians!
Apparently the recent downward pressure on our dollar is due to bad loans made to failing American airlines so they could buy "Canadian" planes? Guess who that might be...you guessed it good old Bombardier! The "Canadian way" is to funnel the money out of the colonies into the center...always has been, always will be!
Ivebinconned points out the discrepencies of this country and that is a good thing? I think it is important to note these things and maybe people will start to wake up and look for a solution? I believe I know the solution....and so does Ivebinconned! Just my opinion.

[ivbinconned]

Northfarmer , that deal in Quebec is well over 20 years old!! That means that there has been a host of western political and farm leaders who either have not told us because they did't know, or, they just treated us like mushrooms and fed us standard $hit.

cakado, the division in Western Canadaian ag communitys and political circles has been fostered since the 2nd world war.
Just think about it...the depression generated protest political movements in the west...spurred on by similar issues yet different solutions where advanced. In Alberta one soultion, in Saskatchewan another.

Some of this division, as compared to Quebec, can be explained by the origins of those who settled in west.

A much more adventuresome and individualizim has always been evident in the west...for 100 years.

As to getting us to unite behind one common cause like the Quebec farm community...I don't know...we have now seen the Sask. government finnily move on the rural tax issue after over 100 R.M.s joined a tax revolt of some sort. Maybe thats what we need a carrot.

In Quebec...not sure about this, I think dolan posted this once, but I think there is a refund on property tax of about %90 when a Quebec producer joins the UPA!

With a carrot like that, horse and I might even work together to raise the tide for all of us.

[dalek]

If you want to see what's going on in Ontario, go to www.farmersfeedcities.com

[stormnorm]

gov react to pressure group like enviro,bussines,union,not much to individual,qc gov settle the land taxes problem after we close atv and snowmobile trail and club member begin to park their machine on MP turf,after reading the late post i understand your point of view,dolin i live sw of montreal

[ivbinconned]

Welcome to this site stormnorm, dalek and dolan.
Thanks for that web site dalek, I quickly made a spin around it.

Stormnorm...we are in a world of hurt out here with no good solutions put forward for many years. It has resulted in our medium rural age, in Saskatchewan, pegged at somewhere in the mid sixties. I know that I, at 55 am the second youngest farmer in my area.

Land is beginning to rent out for zero dollars in some areas, or the tennent just pays the taxes in others. Land is not selling and values are plunging.

I have had a good quarter (100 bushel barley crops) (40 bushel canola) for sale for three years....I get no offers.

There is a pending disaster that is imminent...we have arrived here under the watch of the Canadian Wheat Board and ndp governments

There are those that think with these entities lies our salvation!

we've bin conned

[SASKFARMER3]

Its time for action just what is that action?
I for one believe that this is the final year before all the rural begins to fail.
Total debt is increasing and values are decreasing.
One doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Were dying a slow death and no one cares.

[Horse]

IVBC I tend to work closer to home as I feel if I canot change anything close to home how am I going to change things that I dont have hands on experience. You bring up how Quebec has a better deal Good for you but when I bring up the enequities in the crown land and resource revenue here you think I am just complaning, Does it realy mater how one is being subsidized the fact is some are treated more equal than others .

[ivbinconned]

Horse I think that the difference between you and me is our views on what we consider to be “wealth”. As long as I have a wife and family that loves me…I’m the wealthiest man in the world. Materially no one envies me. I have seen men driven by jealousy…it is not a pretty picture.

You seem to be (forgive if I am wrong) hung up the notion that every one should be equal in their lifestyles etc. There is nothing “equal” about the quality of the land from one farm to the next. There is no equality when it comes to results in this risky business. The only place I know of where these ideas are pursued is in unions…where the poorer nurse and poorer teachers are never fired! If you are doing what you love then you have to accept it and just go on with your life and do what you do…best.

You seem to think that others, your friends and neighbors, are simply paid far too much for what they do and this is all accomplished at your expense. You think there is a “pot” somewhere that we all get reimbursed from. There isn’t!

I asked this question in another thread and there was no response to it but I will ask it again here. If 100-200 years ago as the western world was explored and settled had the law been…what ever is discovered out there, it belongs to all of us! What ever can be garnered from the land, no matter what your risk, it belongs to all of us! Would there ever have been a gold rush? Would anyone ever have taken risks? Would there ever have been a Leduc?

I guess you could say that I just don't accept todays premise that the "resourses" belong "equally" to all of us.

We live in a democracy (supposedly), and although not perfect…I wouldn’t trade our form of it for anything further to the left any where in the world. Saskatchewan is bad enough. It is a given that we will not all have equal results when we all have the freedom to make choices with what we do with our lives.

“Democracy is the UN-equal distribution of wealth; and socialism is the equal distribution of poverty.” Said, a great man. I accept that! The sooner you do the sooner you will be content.

I believe in property rights and I wish that there was no such thing as “leases”! I wish that all the land was deeded. In such a scenario…maybe you wouldn’t own any land. But if there are to be leases, then the man who gets the lease should be able to have the freedom to derive income out of it anyway he can. (We have been over this before) It is none of my business. I can rest in the fact that the money stays in Alberta (most I hope) and benefits your local economy.

However when an Alberta lessee, making good money and the Alberta oil patch man making good money, and the kid at Mac Donald’s, and your mechanic, and your grocer who are not making good money subsidize a lawyer in PEI or subsidize our friend stormnorm in Quebec when he grows wheat to the tune of $120.00 per acre …well there is where I draw the line.

I am happy for our Quebec friends, they have shown us the way, we should learn from them. I just wish we had western and federal governments that where as motivated to support your place and mine… but not cowman, he’s got more money than both of us put together….JUST KIDDING!!

If you want to fault me for that, then so be it, I am a WESTERN Canadian!

But it seems to me that if you or anyone else are not as emotional about Quebec farms being subsidized with Alberta money…WHERE THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO YOUR LOCAL ECONOMY (not shouting, just trying to point out the difference) why are you so exercised about your fellow Albertan getting what seems to appear to be a break?

Have a good night my friend.

“A slave is one who waits for someone else to free him”

[cowman]

Now ivebinnconned, what money are you talking about? Why I have to battle the wolf every morning to keep him off the doorstep! Maybe you mistook me for emerald who has money to burn and delights in giving her all to keep the feds in beans and bacon? LOL
I might have a few shekels if I didn't have that boy and his family around, but then what the hell would I blow it on? I'm at that age where I'm more into utility rather than lavish luxury and due to my "thrifty" Scottish nature I doubt I could live the life of Riley! I have to say thrifty instead of cheap or grassfarmer gets upset. LOL

[SASKFARMER3]

I for one have given up on the Idea that I will become rich. I am happy with my life, What gets my goat is how they have created this false sense of worth between farmers. It amazes me how guys who think their doing good and are told this by their accountant when one looks at the farm as a whole they are two days away from a disaster. The Frost of 04 and the Flood in Manitoba of 05 show this. Govt programs did nothing when the farmer was hit hard by mother nature and his back was against the wall. I believed that I would get help my god after 4 bad years in a row it had to finally kick in. But we search for better prices, volume plays a big roll, etc. still nothing.
Farmers we are going down some fast and the ones with Equity a little slower but they to are loosing the battle.

[stormnorm]

nothing is easy,even with asra,have full time outside job,done that since 30 yrs,for sure will make more money selling the farm,but its my way of life an enjoy it,hang on, hope for you it get better.

[cowman]

Without a doubt it is a tough battle! I guess in the big picture we all have to ask ourselves 'Why am I doing this? What is the point and where do I want to be down the road?"
It isn't easy. And the fact is our government has not been all that helpful, often using us as the fall guy for their own cruddy policies?
It's a tough old world and we all have to do what ever it takes to get down that road?
Is it fair? Well no it really isn't! But those who want to succeed will find a way and those that don't.... fall by the wayside.
I don't write this to say I condone in any way the governments callous abuse of the peasants who farm the land! But it is reality? Just my opinion.