Foreign Ownership and Canada

[cowman]

I don't know...I always figured...there is a buyer and a seller...and what do you need the government involved for?
Everyday we buy and sell the resources of this country and no one puts a gun to your head and says you must buy or sell?
If you are old Joe Farmer with X amount of acres...shouldn't you be able to sell to the highest bidder? Or is Canada an "old boys" club where only the "chosen few" have the right to invest in the country? Isn't that basically protectionism...which we like to beat up on the Americans about?
I don't think you can put forth the argument that you should have a God given right to sell your grain to whoever you wish....while arguing that your neighbor doesn't have the right to sell his property to whomever he wishes?
Property rights mean just that? That you have the right to sell to who ever you wish! You can't pick and choose which "property" is excempt or allowed? Maybe Trudeau knew that "property rights" shouldn't have been included in the charter, as obviously a lot of people don't understand the concept?

[cowman]

Ah, something like the statement that ' everyone should be able to do what they want on their own land', this is the war cry when people want to subdivide in areas where ag land is protected.
But, just let someone want to build a hog barn and everyone decides they should have a say in what goes on that particular piece of land !!!

Cowman, you are right about selling our resources, and most of them are foreign owned !!

[cowman]

Well Emerald, maybe a wee bit of difference between who can buy and sell and the concept of you can do whatever you wish with the land?
Obviously when someone infringes on my rights to enjoy and profit from my property is a little different than selling a property that won't infringe on my rights?
So if Farmer A sells to farmer B and the farm continues to be operated in a similar manner then there isn't a problem? However if Farmer B decides to build a huge hog barn or feedlot then obviously he is infringing on my rights? And yes the same thing could be said for subdivisions...if I owned an ILO! The perfect solution...get rid of the ILO! Actually rising land values usually do this? The land becomes too valuable to raise hogs or steers on? You can really see this west of Red Deer where the former feedlot owners are now developers!
In my area a farmer might as well not even try to build a hog barn or feedlot. Despite all the drivel about how the NRCB now runs the show...it just isn't going to happen! Which personally I think is a good thing, as this land is heading towards being a playground, despite the best efforts of the county planners! We don't need no stinking pigs or steers screwing up our land values?
I see on one thread where you indicated living along the highway II corrider is not all its cracked up to be? I would beg to differ as we have the best of both worlds? Our net worth goes up every year, we are minutes from every major machinery dealer, every amenity you might possibly want? How do you put a price on that?
The funny thing is all the European farmers coming in think this is just a good place to be...until they find out no one wants their dairy cows or pigs! They don't want to live out on the frontier or something and think living beside a stinking hog barn is just peachy! I think a lot of them get a reality check real fast!

[cowman]

I did not say that the land isn't worth more, if you read my post you will see that I said the peace and quiet afforded in places not along the corridor is priceless, at least to me.

There is going to be a huge influx of hog operations in northern AB., not many people and lots of land and water in some places.

There are still numerous operations being approved in central AB. cowman, in fact the Red Deer Region has the most applications for new or expanded operations annually.

[northfarmer]

sure lets open the border for foreign ownership of farmland, but lets say we only do so with countries that reciprocate the deal...meaning we can own farmland in their nation....and lets also say that only if we harmonize all ag subsidies and ag policy so that we can have a free flow of products and capital......to say those that would oppose foreign ownernship of farmland are socialist - give me a break....

[ivbinconned]

Remember that our packing plants are American owned, and for only one reason, the low Canadain dollar made them atractive to buy.

If you are convinced that freedom for anyone to own is consistant with free-enterprise you are sadly mistaken. As long as our governments alow the Canadain dollar to be be weak against foreign investors currency then our government has created a climate in which our competeters have an advantage over Candaian buyers.

I would support complete freedom of commerce as long as monetarily and tax wise and subsidy wise we are at par!

[cowman]

Emerald: I'm pretty close to Red Deer and highway II, so I was basically talking my local area not the whole county? Without a doubt there are places that a hog barn would work...about twenty miles out!
I am also classed "primary Agriculture" by two miles, so no big developements for me in the near future? However recently a bare quarter within three miles sold for $1.5 million to a developer and also the county bought 40 acres for a transfer site at $800,000, about the same distance from me. Of course it was within the "primary agriculture" line, so maybe so much for this primary agriculture garbage? Or don't the rules apply to the county? Or for that matter the oil and gas companies? How come the municipality can come up with these land use rules...but excempt themselves and the oil industry? Doesn't sound very fair does it?
I can't subdivide out, or lease three acres so someone can build a home or run a business, but hey we have no problem letting the oil company build a compressor station or a tank farm? And definitely no problem for the county to build a dump! Save the farm land...yea right.

[cowman]

The municipality has no control over the oil industry, with the exception of auxiliary buildings. They do however, have control over the siting of a tank farm. When I was on council we allowed one to locate about 12 miles from town, he had to build berms, have a separate approach and service road etc., this year the county approved one that hadn't ever had a permit and was no where even close to being in compliance !!

[cakadu]

Cowman, you mean to tell me that the County paid $20,000/acre to buy the land where the dump is going to be situated? That is sound fiscal management?

[cakadu]

Usually when municipalities are negotiating land purchases for landfills etc. they keep it quiet until the deal is closed.

There are only certain sites that will gain approval for landfills but I think cowman was referring to a transfer station.

The county paying that much for land certainly sets the base price, so I would hope they weren't being over lavish with the taxpayers dollars.

[sawfly]

although i might need a forien buyer to to buy my farm , so i will have something to retire on.
there is something wrong with amercian farmers buying it , who have been recieveing 5 times the subsidies i have.
weakened to the point of bankrupcy only to be taken over by farmers supported by the socialist subsides of the USA

[cowman]

Linda: Yep, $20,000/acre...in the bank. Got that from the horses mouth...the landowner! This wasn't their chosen site...they wanted to go on the land south of the Gasoline Business Park, but the farmer wanted $8 million for the whole quarter and wouldn't sell them forty acres! So I guess they got a bargain?
The new transfer station is southeast of the junction of Highway II and highway 42....designated "primary agriculture" land!
I think the county was caught between a rock and a hard place as they had to cut a deal pretty quick if they wanted to meet the July 7th deadline to be out of the Red Deer dump? Not sure why they need 40 acres for a transfer station? The existing ones at Kevisville and Lousana can't be more than about five acres...if that? I can just imagine what an eyesore this one will be!
But I do find it amazing that the county has no problem designating "primary agriculture" land, industrial, for its own benifit, while denying it for all other land owners? There is actually a whack of land just north of highway 42 designated industrial? Why would they violate their own rules?
I've seen this BS happen again and again. "Save the farmland" is the biggest crock of BS in the world? Maybe they should redo that cry? It could be: "Save the farmland...unless we need a landfill, compressor station, drilling lease, power line, a wealthy lawyer wants to develope it, or someone bribes the right people!" I think that would be more appropriate? Or maybe they could say "Save the farmland...at least until some slick bugger other than the farmer owns it...we don't want the peasants actually making any money"?

[cowman]

land has to be rezoned before any other use can happen cowman and each time a re-zoning happens there must be a public hearing.
Did anyone object to the transfer station being located on ag land ?

[cakadu]

First I heard of it emrald was on the radio when it was a done deal. I would point out that there were no figures given on the purchase, just that they had bought 40 acres.

My concern is that it will turn out to be another boondoggle like the one out east of QEII - the name of it escapes me now - where they paid big money for it, made it state of the art (or so we were told) and then it had to be shut down before it ever saw much in the way of rubbish.

There certainly doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason to some of the decisions they are making.

[cowman]

Linda: You should ask your councillor about that "boondoggle" at the Pine Lake landfill...and then you can watch evasion in action? You will get all kinds of stories: Like due to Alberta Environment requirements it was no longer feasible! Or added environmental rules made it uneconomical?
It took over $7 million dollars in costs to get that baby up and running and fight the legal challenges? They fought it out in court for several years? How long was it open...around 5 years? Ever wonder what really happened?
If you remember the local yokels fought that one tooth and nail? Remember how they said "How smart is it to build a huge regional dump on a gravel pit?" If you know the area, Pine Lake Sand and Gravel has a pit south and one west of the site...like right across the road? These same local opponents said that gravel seam runs where...you guessed it right into Pine Lake...three miles away!
Of course the county got in all these "experts" to say the dumb farmers were halfwits or something and didn't have a clue what they were talking about?
Now consider this: This dump is closed down...BANG! No warning, no explanation? What happened? Did the liner fail and tests show toxic seepage is in the shallow aquifier in the gravel seam? How long until it hits Pine Lake? I figure about ten years!
But please do ask for an explanation, listen carefully...and in ten years remember what I told you! Because that is what happened.