Oilfield Experiences

[cowman]

Yea I know Linda. You are an idealist and I am a greedy little money grubber! But hey it takes all kinds to make the world go around?
I suspect you are going to be disappointed. The EUB has one mandate...GET THAT WELL DRILLED! When you realize that fact, then they can be helpful! They want to create the least possible fuss...while filling their mandate!
The water well thing has never stopped a well from being drilled to my knowledge? You might get them to back off aways and they will test your well within a certain distance, but they will drill the well.

[cakadu]

Those are your words, cowman, not mine. We are all motivated by different things, mine just doesn't include money. For others it does and that is okay with me because that is what makes everyone special.

I am not going to be disappointed because I fully realize and understand that the well will be drilled, consequences be damned. Emrald's point about there being legislation in place before we just go off on a tangent is a valid one and that is what I would like to see. I do have great concerns about our groundwater supplies and what the implications of our current actions will be on future generations.

We are moving so quickly these days, with no benchmarks that we simply cannot know or understand the long-term impacts of these frenzied actions. A little planning and forethought can go a long way.

[cowman]

Well I think you might find there are several rules and regulations in place in regards to water wells?
I believe the EUB and the oil and gas companies are trying their best to get that message out, but they need to do a better job...no two ways about it?
There was an article in one of the local papers about some of the frustration experienced by the industry? It basically quoted an EUB sokesman who said you bring in the experts, they all say its not a problem and best science says etc. etc.....and then someone who doesn't have a clue says "It ruined my well!" "I have methane in my well"...things like that! Sort of don't confuse me with the facts!
We've always had methane in our wells...some as shallow as 50 feet! My neighbor called me this winter and said his darned well is dry...those $#@% coalbed companies! I helped him pull up the pipe...rotten foot valve!
Any oil or gas company must case the well through any aquifier...that is the law? Can a frac get into an aquifier? Don't know but they did change the rules on that in about February...where they can't frac within a certain distance from the aquifier...I believe either 200 feet or 200 meters...I'll find out. They now know the coal frac is virtually all horizontal with very little vertical movement...like maximum 20 feet.
Personally I doubt you need to worry about your water? They've been punching holes around here since the early fifties and a lot of them were not very eco friendly! No problems so far.
Is the risk zero? Well no...there is no such thing as zero risk...but I would suggest it is fairly small? Instead of listening to one side only, like the eco lady from Rosemary, you should listen to the other side, too? As I said it is unfortunate the CBM companies have not done a better job presenting their case. Doreen Rempel of MGV is a good communicator...we need more people like her.
Bottom line is we need to access this resource, and we need to do it in the best way possible.

[farmers_son]

Cowman: I tend to agree with much of your comments here. However I would point out that while "we" need to access this resource, "we" being defined as for profit, U.S. owned if not based energy companies, that the negative impacts fall upon the local people who may or may not share in any of the benefits.

Water is important on a farm and, for most of us with cattle and limited financial means, when we turn on the tap and no water comes out it is a very great concern. Like what would we do if we lost our water? The energy company may or may not be to blame and they may or may not help restore a water supply. Seismic does hurt water wells, it is reasonable to be concerned about fracing shallow coal seams. For the most part people realize the EUB does not have the protection of the general public as their first concern, and for certain farmers do not rate even as high as a city dweller in the EUB's eyes, rather the EUB mandate it is to further energy development in this province.

That leaves it up to farmers to look after their concerns. If we won't look after our water it is for certain no one else will.

[farmers_son]

Plus, any farmer that has taken the route of intervenor and made things uncomfortable for not only the energy company but the EUB is branded as a fanatic......particularly if they know how to work the system regarding board hearings etc.

Dealing with a 'dumb farmer' is a lot easier than dealing with one who knows how the system should work and won't back down !!!!!!!

[cowman]

Well Farmers son the oil and gas company don't get it all? Someone gets royalties on everything that comes out of that hole, whether it is the government, a freeholder, CPR or Hudson Bay...or their offshoots?
Not all oil and gas companies are American and certainly not CBM companies? Encana and Trident?
Of course water is important. What I was saying is the industry does a good job of protecting those water wells. I actually don't know of any well that has gone dry...PROVEN...not hearasy...due to a gas/oil well being drilled? About four years ago they drilled a well about three miles from a neighbor and within about a week his water got all muddy and cloudy! Cleared up in about a week. Now I have no doubt the company drilled through the stream that supplied his well and that is what caused the mud but the casing fixed that.

[farmers_son]

Cowman: The oil companies do not get it all, but they get most of it.

I recall for many years there was no proven link between sulphur emissions and health problems with cattle although the anecdotal evidence from producers suggested that the problem was there. It took a significant research project to show the link existed and it was years before that study was conducted. Before that the energy sector denied any problem existed just like they deny any problem exists with water wells.

See: http://www.albertabeef.org/CABIDF/03reports/06christophsnF.html

Since there is not any funding to do research into the water well problems that are occurring in areas with significant energy development then it should not surprise anyone that a link between the two will never be “proven” although the anecdotal evidence is there just like it was for sulphur emissions and cattle health. I am sure that no funding for such a project will be forthcoming from our Alberta government. The official line from the province now is that methane occurs naturally in the water so that serves as some indication of how they intend to treat the problem.

Trident Exploration Corp. is an Alberta registered company with its voting shareholders made up of:

Aurora Energy LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah

Nexgen Energy Canada Inc.
Aurora, Colorado

NRL Energy Investments Ltd.
Calgary, Alberta

The Southern Ute Tribe
Durango, Colorado

Trident CBM Corp
Salt Lake City, Utah

The majority of our energy industry is owned by the United States directly or indirectly through Canadian subsidiaries. The reality is our oil and gas industry is mostly foreign owned. And that is where the profits end up, somewhere else.

According to Forbes not one of the 10 ten oil companies in the world is based in Canada. Italy, China, Russia, France have ownership of their oil, Canada does not have ownership of its energy resources even though we are the worlds 8th largest oil producer.

[silverback]

Well then why don't you start your own oil/gas company, build it up until you have as many employees as the companies you are listing (in Canada), and then turn it over to the government so that all the profits remain in your province??

If you want the government to run every aspect of your life just admit it finally!

Quit wanking about the big,bad U.S.A. and get your government to take over all private business so that the word profit is completely eliminated from your vocabulary. I would imagine they will listen, surely everyone must feel the same about the word profit as you?

[farmers_son]

What??? Perhaps you misread what was being said or do you just make up problems so you can answer them?

No one said anything against making a profit. I would like to make a profit myself. In response to Cowman’s suggestion that the mentioned CBM companies were Canadian I did point out these are American owned companies that are developing the energy resources under our land. As landowners we are impacted by this development. The benefits, and there are benefits, go elsewhere. The profits obviously go south of the border.

As for wanking the bad old U.S.A., why not? I am a cattle producer, tell me why I should not wank the bad old U.S.A. Last time I checked they were blocking the border to my cows even though they have BSE the same as Canada. The U.S. is not doing me any favours by drilling for gas under my land.

Perhaps I am not getting where your comments come from. If you are saying that the reason why Canadians are not able to invest in our own oil and gas has something to do with taxation maybe that is a good point. I think Albertans have reason to question why we even have to pay taxes with this bonanza under our land. As for government running every aspect of my life, well it is government that sets the policies and guidelines for drilling on private deeded land such as I and Cakadu own. Yes, it is a problem when oil and gas companies want to drill on our land and government (through the Surface Rights Board) tells us what we get paid and that we have to let the companies on our land even if we are not satisfied with the compensation or circumstances.

[cowman]

Well I thought Trident was a wholey owned Canadian company...which just goes to show you learn something new everyday!
I do believe however that the oil/gas company does "own" the right to drill for their property? They paid someone for that right...cash on the barrelhead?
Our government sets the rules and regulations for the company to access their property. If anyone doesn't believe they are getting fair compensation they have an avenue to address that? In the end an arbritation board will decide what is fair and just compensation.
If there wasn't some system in place how would the companies access their property? How would the government realize a benifit from their property? It isn't a perfect world but that is just how it is?
I would imagine if we had a different government, with a different philosophy the companies wouldn't be so gungho to operate here....its called Saskatchewan!
As far as the USA: We are selling close to 10,000 feeder cattle a week to the US. We are selling over 18,000 fats a week. They are our best customer...and we are theirs? Without the US market our cattle industry is toast...at least as we know it!
Yes our trade relationship hasn't been perfect. Both sides have done some dumb things? It has not been helpful to have our leaders call their leader a moron and a bastard!
These trade deals are a benifit to both countries. Now that we have a leader that has similar ideas to the American administration, hopefully we will move forward.

[farmers_son]

Good points. Time will tell which province is managing its energy reserves the best. Yes the majority of the activity is in Alberta but Saskatchewan may very well end up getting a far better deal for its energy. Bottomline, Alberta is more than willing to sell its oil and gas to the Americans dirt cheap. I would point out the 1% royalty the Province of Alberta receives on Tar Sands oil. Even considering conventional oil and gas, present market conditions should warrant an increase in royalty rates but they remain at the same levels they were when oil was $11 per barrel.

Most, not all, but most of the benefit of the high energy prices go south of the border while landowners in this province do have problems as a result of energy activity on their land. Not to mention that typical well site revenue a farmer receives would not even pay his heating gas bill for the year and it would take many wells to cover his fuel bill.

You mention arbitration…the Surface Rights Board. The SRB sets the tone for payments received for all well and pipeline payments in this province. The SRB awards are nothing less than a joke. The SRB awards have not changed significantly in 20 years. Even assuming SRB awards were fair 20 years ago they would not be fair today given how land values and costs in general have increased. The one and only reason energy companies are gaining access to deeded land today at these ridiculously low compensation rates is the sorry state of the farm economy and the SRB backs the oil companies up instead of supporting agriculture.

And we are selling feeders to the U.S. And that is a good thing. We should not forget for one minute the artificial costs they have built into that trade. Things like branding CAN, preg checking heifers and dentition on all animals. Those requirements are costing each and everyone of us money. And I would like someone to point out to me one good reason why our cows are not going south right this very minute if that is where the higher prices are. The Americans are not doing us any favours by buying our gas and oil or our cattle either. It is all about their self interest.

[cowman]

Well I think they are renegotiating the 1% royalty on tarsands? That low royalty was never meant to be forever, but was an incentive to bring in some investment? And yes the only ones willing were those evil international American corporations?
As far as surface lease payments: Sure we'd all like a million dollars, but that just isn't going to happen? In reality the renumeration for surface rights are a lot better than anything you might do with farming? I don't think any farmer would be happy getting paid barley prices for a surface lease!
And finally...I don't know why cows aren't moving across the border. The US dept. of Agriculture has decided the time isn't right...and they run the show! I sure don't think it helped when we had the "crooks" and American haters in office! And don't forget the old R-CALF boys were always in there stirring the pot! Patience my friend.