2006 Buget

[silverback]

One more thing I think that a "cold hard cash injection", is useless. They should put the money into a program like CropIns. Have Cropins program that pays the bills. A one time payment helps temporarily not long term.

[skhadenuf]

Yes your right money into a good crop insurance is a good alternative get rid of the same flaws in Crop insurance as CAIS has, maybe cost of production and the average wage of a tradesman built in just like Quebec farmers have, but reality is that it isn't happenning but why not. Maybe I am way off the mark but according to the banks and fuel dealers etc in many areas we are on the edge of not just farmers collapsing. Things vary from area to area but in our area we lost 4 years in a row including last year. While some areas had for example 40 bushel acre of canola x 5.00 there is 200 bucks an acre. not a windfall but covers alot more than the crop insurance average coverage 90 to 110 bucks an acre. Yet those guys are complaining also. So where we lost 4 crops we lost around 100 bucks an acre of equity the last 4 years. My issue with the comments of Silverback is that to me there was implying that a person can just go out and make an easy boatload of money to keep the farm going well 100 buck an acre loss for four years you need an awfully big boat and I do work steady every available day off farm.

Why are we the western farmers not as important to our economy as those farmers in Quebec and those farmers like I said in Brazil and practically every other competing country.

Believe me I know what we would have gotten from the Liberals, practically nothing except the same rhetoric. But I am not afraid to say I voted Conservative on 2 issues, the scandals and the campaign that they were going to provide a bridge funding to keep us going until a good program could be developed.

From what I understand they are going to do some tweeking with Cais. Why, I think they should know by now that that will be a collassal screw up in terms of calculating and time to process. If they are going to do the inventory thing of price at the start of the year compared to price at end of year on inventory is that going to help those that had a frost, hail, drought, or flood that totally wiped out their crop, no because there is no inventory only the guys who had a better crop will benefit, so there you go same gong show different party.

Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am the only farm in trouble, but I voted for them to get rid of that collasal screw up, they said they would, I may have been mistaken but they said in the campaign short term money to survive until things are fixed, so what's the deal? Maybe I represent a small number of farmers then fine let me go down so as one writer described it will be better for those left because there will be less acres seeded. If that's the attitude out there then I think the propogandists have won there is no real rural character anymore!

I'd hope that if there are others out there with the same situation make it known I was one of those that sat back, but not any more, if your sitting there embarrassed about being in trouble you shouldn't be it's the policy makers of this country that should be embarrassed.

Don't be mistaken I want to see this government do well but they need to earn our trust not just blind faith because the other guys stunk the place out.

[coppertop]

Don't you think that the government needs to be given the opportunity to show the agricultural industry exactly what they have in mind as far as assistance goes before they are crucified ?

I think they have made it clear that CAIS is going to be long gone once they have another plan in place that will provide long term assistance.

[cowman]

I gotta agree with skhadenuf on this one. The Conservatives promised to trash CAIS, while providing short term relief to a disasterous problem? Now they are playing this "Oh CAIS can be fixed...the provinces say so!" Sorry that just doesn't wash? That is not what they promised!
Grain and oilseeds are in the tank. I truly doubt anyone can make money at these prices...at least not enough to feed the family!
I don't know about the rest of the people on here but I sure as hell don't want to be the only one left farming! I want the neighbors down the road...not twenty miles away!
The Conservatives need to realize who took them to the dance? It wasn't the city slickers in Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa...it was the rural areas of the west and Ontario! They'd better wake up and keep their promises to those voters or they may find they won't have a ride home!

[cowman]

Cowman, you have to give them a chance. They can't fix 13 years of screw ups in 3 months!! They did promise disaster relief, but I don't know what guys expect. $75/acre like APAS is asking for you and I both now is totally out of line. Why the Americans and can be subsidized so greatly, come on you guys know why?? How can we compete with 33 million people in this country?? As long as they are competing as best they can thats all we can ask for.

[farmers_son]

Cowman: I think the Conservatives do realize who took them to the dance. But make no mistake about it this is an election budget. For the most part the Conservatives can take a lot of the votes they got in the last election for granted, certainly from Manitoba west. I expect we will see this government pander first and foremost to Quebec to strengthen the inroads they made in that province as well as attempt to garner votes in the major cities where they were shut out in the last election.

I do not expect agriculture to be a high priority. To understand this budget we need to keep in mind that to form a majority in the next election this government has to win votes in Quebec. If anything is done with agriculture it will have to gain them seats in rural Quebec. They simply are not concerned about you or I.

[skhadenuf]

In Saskatchewan 75 bucks an acre is not out of line particularly for anyone who has had crop losses to the point of being in crop insurance claim. That 75 bucks brings you only to the break even point of 170 to 180 bucks an acre on most crops. Why can the country afford to pay the Quebec farmers and not us at the same level, cut back the
Quebec farmers to our level of coverage and I won't say another word on this issue.

The ndp and liberals have done a good job propoganda wise they even have farmers brainwashed into thinking there is no money for agriculture.

I know ad hoc payments are not the long term solution but the industry needs some breething space to sort this out.

As far as the 33 million people versus the U.S. population we all have heard that song and dance for the last 13 years with the federal liberals and here in Saskatchewan with the ndp commies. So what you are saying then is they are right?
1.5 billion is what fraction of the total budget, next to nothing. That tells us what priority agriculture has, which is next to nothing.
If you are going to use the same argument that the ndp and fed liberals have used and the industry has gone in the tank with that strategy then what is the difference between the parties on agriculture. ( exclude the obvious corruption scandals deal directly with ag policy) It tells me to this point that they just don't get it either.

On other issues I think they have done very well in the past 3 months a few minor stumbles but over all in all other catogories they did what they promised, Why not for agriculture?

[rose13]

I realize all farmers are in dire straits, but when the BSE crisis hit
the beef sector they got a $50,000 loan.
I do repeat a LOAN, now we have to pay that back, and have no cash to continue.
I believe the crop sector has got cash and would like more.
How about going on the $ per acre system that one is farming, if not crop, then cattle. This would get the farmers leasing also, not the owners but the ones that are actually seeing their net worth fall, and the workers.

[dolin]

skhadenuf,i disagree about cut back our coverage,quebec farmers arent the cause of your problems.

[ivbinconned]

No Dolin...we do not want to build ourselves up by pulling you down...BUT, you must bear in mind that your provincial Quebec government can only afford the kind of support you get because of the equalization process that takes $$$$$$$$$ from Alberta that have been passed through the federal government!!!

It is only fair that the WHOLE country see the importance of keeping the entire countries ag sector healthy and in a state that encourages generational turnover.

Saddly this is not happening in most of the west.

[silverback]

I really am sorry that times are tough, really. I am not exactly rolling in it either, I never said I was.

If you thought that the new gov't was going to give out $75 - $100 an acre, you were sadly mislead. There is no way in h___ that the city taxpayers would ever stand that sort of hit. How much would that be I wonder?

I repeat, if it is killing you to work just so you can farm, why are you farming? Tradition is great, history is great, but depression, anger, and bitterness suck. There is more to life than trying to produce food for people who have lost the knowledge of where it comes from.

[coppertop]

All you need to do is read any major newspaper and you will see large urban centers voicing demands for huge dollars from the federal government to help them deal with the huge demands for increased infrastructure due to the rapid growth across most of the country.

These dollars come from the same pocket that dollars to assist agriculture come from, and although some money has been promised to the agriculture industry, it is a small voice compared to the huge urban population. Those are the facts that the government must deal with when they are deciding who gets the largest piece of the pie.

[SASKFARMER3]

Some people have to seed and I am one, but after reading late last night the colum and thinking about the budget all day I have a few thoughts. First I work for AG Canada on the side and I feel Chuck strall is getting a load of Crap from the Heiracy in Ottawa about the farm situation. These useless Buerocrats have been in charge of Canadian Agriculture for so long they havent got it right yet so why would they now. But they are experts.
Second I thought Strall had more Balls than he does and could see through the smoke and mirrors of Ag Canada. Because the first thing he did showed he was in charge (750 million paid out all not in two parts like the liberano"S) But weeks later he looks beat.
WE NEED A CASH INJECTION AND 1.5 Billion would be 14.9% of your last 4 years sales on 100,000.00 that would be $14,900.00 and on 1/2 million $74,500.00 and on a million $149,000.00 thats money not BS. Like Ag Canada gives.
Yes I am pissed a AG CAnada But they are the problem with Agriculture in Canada because of No vision, and so we loose some western farmers their is lots of them who cares attitude. and Yes I am sick of provinces like Quebec using Alberta money and Western Money to be a have not province and run deficits wile out west we are told by our governments that we cant support agriculture.
ANd the Dip who is talking about how 33 million cant support ag like the USA it comes down to one thing farmers and food are respected in Europe and USA and in Canada we are not! Starve once and see but when that happens all of us will be gone.

[SASKFARMER3]

Saskfarmer, what I meant by 33 million people in Canada is out of those 33 million how many are taxpayers?? Less than half. So how in the hell do you expect a $75/acre payout, when we have so little people?? $75/acre would work out to $3 billion for Sask alone. We wonder why Sask can't support agriculture?? Hmm lets see 980,000 people 1/3 pay tax it isn't hard to figure out.

[skhadenuf]

To silverback I was a bit harsh in response to your other post, but I like others live and breath this farm which has been in our family 90 years. What your saying is if it's bad just leave it get a good job and life will be great and for some that would work, but for the rest of us there is a whole lot more than just sweat in our farms our souls. Somebody has to stand up and change this thing or those people who had fortune of good crops all the way through sooner or later you'l be in the same boat. When I read the articles in this forum there sometimes are differences in opinions on solutions and causes but nearly unanimously we all recognize that we are not getting our share for our product. That share either comes direct from the market or through taxes and redistribution. Canadians aren't paying anywhere near what most other countries that call themselves developed countries do.

To dolin, I don't want your coverage cut, and you are not the cause of our problems, but why is the right thing for us not to have just as good of a program as you do?

I knew 75 bucks wouldn't be coming I just wanted to illustrate the situation for some of us who had total wipe outs and do all we are supposed to like take crop insurance and cais and how inadequate it is. Bottom line is that it was promised in the election that there would be help for seeding I don't expect all my bills paid. If the conservatives are saying that the industry only deserves this much priority then there is no difference between them and the Liberals of the past.

To rose13 I totally understand your situation I have cattle also, there are many that are going throught the same situation. Am fully aware of who got the money out of the BSE scenerio. When drought hit our area and many others we had to unload much of our stock at a rip off price to the feedlots, and later there were payments from cais and other programs all going to the feedlots so they bought for nothing and got paid for it on top. But as far as crop farmers getting money it may sound like a lot but again the very large corporate farms and admin costs are eating up the majority of that money the average farmer that has had multiple weather disasters and had little margins got next to nothing out of the Cais either. Thats what makes me more than mad about what is happenning right now. The Conservatives said they would scrap that program said they understood it wasn't working hell even the liberals acknowledged it wasn't working, but from what I understand this 1 billion of the 1.5 is going into Cais based on past year inventory, do you know how much admin and time that is going to cost probably most of that money and a year or 2 too late.

Bottom line is we shouldn't just walk away we are not the ones in the wrong here. The Conservatives may be looking for a majority and therefore I guess by some comments we are supposed to accept a hosing just so they get a majority, I don't think so we have been hosed already too long!!!!