wiebul ludwig

[coppertop]

And pigs will fly before that ever becomes a way to deal with these parasites even though it may certainly be the answer.If it was ever a suggested method of dealing with those found guilty of such crimes the bleeding hearts of the world would be crying bloody murder about violation of their rights, inhuman treatment etc., not taking time to think about the sort of treatment these pedophiles, rapists etc. have meted out to their prey.

As for us GUYS giving any thought to issues discussed, I can assure you that spending numerous years as a volunteer on my local RCMP detachment Public Advisory Committee has given me much ammo for my comments.

kpb, I respect many of your ideas and comments on this site but I certainly do not agree with you on this one. If, in your mind, that makes me an archaic thinker, then so be it, I can assure you I am not alone.

[cowman]

Well I would say kpb makes a good point? Prohibition...just doesn't work...period!
Lets not forget this: Tobacco and alcohol kill more people and mess up their lives than illegal drugs do? And incidently the "pusher" of those drugs are your local federal and provincial governments!
I believe if you are an adult, you can choose to do to yourself whatever you want? No government in the world can stop you from sticking a needle in your arm or putting whatever up your nose!...Nor should they? It's your life?
If the darned government could ever get over the idea they need to wipe everybodys noses and butts, it might be helpful?
Groups like the Hells Angels, Jaimacan possees, asian gangs are becoming fabulously rich because of prohibition? They certainly don't want to see a regulated and controlled drug trade, because the illegal trade is their bread and butter! Whenever the government declares something "illegal", you just created a wealth source for the predators in our society?
Of course the real sad thing about the "war on drugs" is they target the most benign drug out there... because it is visible and easy to detect! So we have people going to jail and having a felony record over a simple plant? Absolutely insane!

[coppertop]

cowman, the government in some provinced are paying for the needles for the @@##$$ addicts !!

I have a problem when my tax dollars have to pick up the pieces because people choose to ruin their health, spend their income ( legal or illegal) on substances vs being responsible enough to provide the necessities of life for themselves and their families, and that responsibility falls to the rest of us.

By making the choice which as you say is theirs to make, to live that lifestyle they are forcing taxpayers like me to live a lower standard so we can all pitch in to support them !!!

You can be the town drunk, coke addict, etc., p' away all the money you have and when you get old you can live in subsidized seniors housing for 30% of your old age pension.

If you have worked your butt off all your life and have a few dollars put away, you still pay 30% of your income but if you are getting a bit of interest you pay 30% of it as well. So at the end of the trail it costs you more to live in the same subsidized housing as the person that hasn't contributed much to society !!! That I have a problem with.

And exactly how would you suggest that the drugs like cocaine are legalized, and who would regulate it. Could those who choose to use it just pop into the local Seven Eleven and buy their daily supply, or would they need to see a doctor and get a prescription. If that is the case, their visit to the doctor would no doubt be covered by our health care system. Perhaps if they were in dire need of a good old snort they would be seen before the rest of the population in the waiting room !!!

[kpb]

coppertop, I respect your opinion and read with interest your posts. I also do not think your thinking is archaic and I recognize that your opinion is reflective of that of most Canadians.
But I would ask you to consider the matter of drug control again, not as a gut reaction, but rather in the interest of effective control.
It must be said that our efforts to control drugs has been a dismal failure. Keeping people in jail is incredibly expensive.
The suggested route of more laws, more jail time has not proven to be effective. You think my suggestion of legalization followed by controlled sale (in a liquor outlet store type of arrangement, not by doctor or by 7-11) is not accceptable to you. So what is your solution? I know that you are a thinking person so you must realize that more of the same is not going to do the trick.
Cowman's point about marijuana is also very valid. Say what you want about hard drugs but we should certainly not be wasting resources, money, etc. not to say ruining many lives by giving them a felony conviction over trying to control the adult use of a plant that has been shown, in repeated studies, to be not as dangerous to one's health as alcohol or, even, tobacco.

kpb

[coppertop]

kpb, believe me I understand where you are coming from on this issue but I cannot for the life of me understand why we the taxpayers have to pay for the regulation of anything that causes dependency. Look at the costs to the health care system from smoking and alcohol abuse. Both these substances are regulated in some form, and at a time when governments are spending a small fortune in advertising against the use of these commodities why would we want to regulate anything stronger ?

I guess I don't understand why people get hooked on this stuff in the first place, maybe that is my downfall, but why in heck don't they want to stop using drugs, get help which is available at our expense to do so rather than be able to buy it whenever they want to ???

I have dontated a significant amount of items and funds to a school that is being built to assist young people who are hooked on drugs to clean up their act and finish their education in a controlled environment. This school is being built, and will be run by volunteers. There is a cost to enroll and live in residence, and the waiting list is a mile long with parents wanting to get their kids cleaned up and being willing to pay whatever it costs.
There are even those who are offering to pay double to jump the que and get their kids into treatment immediately. Of course the school cannot do business that way, but it is a sad day in our society when we need these schools. Do you think we would need less of them if drugs were legalized ? I sure don't have the answer to this huge issue but I am very concerned that if we legalize drugs to the extent that people can walk into a liquor store and buy them then the problems that are already in place with abuse of drugs and alcohol will be compounded.

[cowman]

coppertop: The fact is alcohol was once prohibited? And it was an utter disaster?
Now the government has control of it and is making money off it! The fact is without alcohol and tobacco taxes the government would be broke? Now before you jump all over me on that statement...bare with me a moment!
If tobacco and alcohol were illegal, there would still be a market for them. The government would still have the health costs, disruption of lives etc., but no revenue from taxes and the added expense of extra policing, incarceration, and a large number of citizens who were criminals!
Also lets not forget, despite added health costs for these two legal drugs, the government saves mega bucks on pension money as users tend to die a lot sooner? Pensioners are costly for the government!
I'm not a big fan of drugs, but the reality is they are here to stay and we need to deal with it? Building more prisons and spending billions on a "war on drugs" is a very expensive way to go? We've had a "war on drugs" going for quite awhile...hows it working so far?
I would suggest the government model of reducing tobacco use might be better? More education and tax the hell out of it?
People are funny? You tell them they can't have something...they are going to want it! Gambling, booze, tobacco, prostitution, drugs! And wherever there is a demand someone sure will supply it, and the more the government cracks down on these vices, the more profit for the predators!
I agree very much that our society has become very irresponsible in regards to taking care of themselves! Cradle to grave socialist policies don't work in the long run? You create a society that is irresponsible and lazy!

[FarmRanger]

I agree that education is important. Education helps, but can’t that education come in addition to keeping street drugs illegal, instead of hypocritically making them legal and then telling us how bad they are? We should be showing our young people the human tragedy resulting from abusing drugs, and how quickly some drugs like crystal meth can mush your brain. But legalizing and “taxing the hell out of it”? I suspect the costs from legalizing crystal meth would far outweigh any tax collected.
At least smokers are contributing members of society until they need the medical system. How much contribution would we have from meth addicts versus their cost to society? Do we raise the price of meth to cover this shortfall? Hmm, more incentive to make “illegal” crystal meth to thwart the tax man. So we’d still have illegal drug pushers, except we’d call them smugglers, or unlicensed manufacturers. Meanwhile, like cigarettes, the government will have given it’s tacit approval to blowing your teen’s brains out with meth. What are the legal repercussions of doing so?
Some people will always engage in dangerous behaviour no matter what the law says, but does this justify relinquishing the law for the rest of us? Aren’t we supposed to protect society with laws, especially our most vulnerable?

[coppertop]

Yesterday I attended a family gathering where one person attending is a RN working in a First Nations health unit. Drugs and needles are provided to addicts upon request, she said it has not lessened the drug abuse, in fact hard drug use is increasing, and gangs are running rampant on the reserve. The Province has increased the RCMP numbers at a cost to all of us to try and deal with the problems which according to the Solicitor General's office are drug related, so obviously providing drugs is not getting the situation under control in that instance.

I don't know how crystal meth could be regulated unless the province built their own meth labs !! I cannot see any politician coming out in favor of that !!!

I just thank the man upstairs at every opportunity that no-one in my family has an addiction to any substance,it is a horrific thing to deal with.

[coppertop]

kpb, I am replying to your post on the coalbed and cattle site. I do not advocate the government regulating everything, but there are already laws in place concerning drug use, drug trafficking etc.

My understanding from information I have gathered over the years is that marijuana use often leads to using other drugs such as heroin, cocaine etc. Are you advocating that these be legalized as well, and if so how are you going to control the behaviour of those who comsume these legal drugs ?

In our community within the past month a young 32 year old cocaine user died of a stroke. His friends took up a collection to pay for his funeral expenses and now are requesting donations to assist his common law wife and child and unborn child keep their home etc.

I would really appreciate it if you can tell me why people need to use the damn stuff in the first place and by legalizing it are we condoning it ???

[cowman]

coppertop:They use it because they choose to? Would you be happier if they drank themselves to death at age 32?
Yes there are laws against illegal drugs...just like there were laws against illegal liquor? In fact when Alberta was "dry", marijuauna was not illegal! In 1938 it suddenly became illegal and really had nothing to do with how harmful it might be, but a concerted effort by the news print industry to get rid of the hemp competition!
Marijuauna is not completely illegal? There are many people who get a license to grow it for medical purposes? HMMM...its good medicine, better than anything else for pain relief? Ask someone suffering from MS?
The concept that marijuauna is a "gateway drug" has been thoroughly disproved. The only ones claiming that marijuauna leads to harder drugs is the religious right in the Bush administration, with zero facts to back that up! Its like "oh the herion addict smoked mj once", but in fact he probably drank milk too...and that doesn't make milk a gateway drug!
Illegal drugs will never be stamped out. The trick is to reduce the risk as much as possible? Its called harm reduction? It does not make sense to create a bigger and more harmful problem over a smaller problem?
Meth and crack are pretty ugly and I'm not condoning the use of them. But I sure don't see wrecking some 17 years olds life because he smoked a joint with his buddies! Totally inappropriate punishment for a bit of fun that hurts nobody.

[cowman]

One more thing before I get to work...The senate, that sober second look at government, recommended that pot be legalized and regulated? Now are these people all idiots or something? We might consider them political hacks, but the fact is many of these senators were the leaders in our country and very capable people?
The other thing is this: If everyone who ever smoked pot was jailed...you'd need to have the biggest prison system in the world? Come on everyone smoked pot in the late sixties/seventies! There was a popular saying back then "Even the Pope smokes dope"!
Maybe you all led a very sheltered life or something?

[coppertop]

cowman, I don't know what you call a sheltered life, but I do not apologize for the life I choose to lead which happens to be one free of substances that provide a 'crutch' to deal with life !!! I am no teetotaller but it would be a real stretch to even consider me a social drinker. If leading a sheltered life means that I don't snort, smoke, etc., then I am proud to have lead and continue to lead a sheltered life.

In our local paper last week there was a letter from the mother of a 14 year old girl. Her daughter had been invited to a birthday party at a friends home, the party was to be 'supervised' by the parents of the hostess. The 'supervising parents' provided beer for the kids, and the mother's letter to the paper went in to detail about how she and her husband were trying their level best to encourage their daughter to abstain from alcohol and drugs, and hopefully make good choices later in life. Of course the kid had a few beers at the party because all her friends were doing so....., but not to worry, the party was 'supervised, so none of the kids could get hurt if they got drunk !!!

Maybe in your view the girl in question was leading a sheltered life, in my view she is being raised by parents who care a lot about her and don't want to end up seeing her in a coffin because of some dumb choice she made as a kid.