Coalbed and cattle

[coppertop]

sagewood, excellent advice for cowman and anyone else who may have coalbed activity on their land.

[sagewood]

Thanks Coppertop. I can certainly let you all have a list of 'my' wants and needs and concerns etc. if anyone needs it as a guideline. I have garnered many ideas from other land owners who were not pro-active and just took the money and ran--to their everlasting horror now--they have no control and are battling the oilies on many fronts and getting nowhere.

Also, having a lawyer or your own landperson assisting you is an absolute must and the oilies have to pay for you to have council..you do not have to make these decisions alone. And as all of you know, there are lots and lots of local resource groups that you can join and continue to be educated and pro-active in protecting your rights, water and land...

[coppertop]

I have negotiated several suface rights leases on my land, and the one thing that helped me was that our local Agricultural Service Board used to hole seminars on surface rights and how to negotiate leases etc.

[cakadu]

I would have to reiterate that it is good advice sagewood. I also wouldn't mind having your list of things to look out for because we will be getting called upon soon. Maybe not for CBM - YET, but we are having to deal with an application for an increase for shallow gas wells (could that be read as CBM?) by a company called Intrepid. They are seeking to have the zone from 1 per section to 4 per section, which of course we don't want. We are pretty much out of luck though as they are already starting to set up on the neighbors quarter. The fellow came to see if he could buy water or land for spreading, both of which he was given a no.

We may not want it, but we are going to get it no matter what we say or want. Being forearmed is probably our absolute best defence.

If you don't want to post here, you can send it to my e-mail at cakadu@telusplanet.net.

Thanks for your help in this.

[sagewood]

Cadaku, I will do up my list and forward it to your address...if anyone else wants it, feel free to let me know. Absolutely the local Ag. guys/girls are always another good source for information, as well as the Farmer's Advocate. I find, however, that all sorts of good ideas come from those who have 'been there-done that' as far as land owners go, b/c they have seen what happens to their land/water etc. after signing the lease. The best defence, is still a good offence (knowledge)A meeting is coming my way this summer for the CBM on my home section...guess I have stalled them as long as I can...will get the list to you asap..hg

[cowman]

sagewood:Good advice for sure! I would also add get a weed agreement in place, on paper, with a time frame to do it in? If there is ground disturbance get an agreement in place on tested weed free grass seed. A lot of the grass seed coming into the province now comes from Oregon and is polluted with narrow leaf Hawksbeard....those pretty yellow flowers in all the new hay fields!
If you are capable of spraying the lease get it in writing....when you spray, what chemical, and how much you will be paid! Don't rely on the company to use the right spray or right sprayer!
People don't realize how costly it can be if you get an infestation of restricted or noxious weeds.
I'm not 100% sure that CBM is safe in regards to polluting the aquifier but the fact is these companies know a lot more about the frac than they did 5 years ago? The frac is basically horizontal...which makes sense if you think about it? Coal is layered? They claim the frac never exceeds 20 feet vertical and since they can't frac within 200 meters of the aquifier...well that sounds pretty safe?
But the bottom line is this: The gas is there and the companies and the Alberta government intend to get it...one way or the other! You can fight it and eventually lose or you can realize you just can't win this one and you may as well enjoy it?
As far as fencing a lease goes I would suggest a locked gate, with you having one padlock and key and the operator having a padlock and key might be better for coalbed?

[sagewood]

Cowman, all good points. I did try the locked gate thing on one of my 1/4's and you know, not only can the new, young, inexperienced oilies not close a gate--they can't even remember to leave the lock, much less lock it, so that happy idea lasted about two weeks. Thus, on my home place, where cattle are involved. I am going to insist on chain link fence around the entire site, that way, I don't have yet more fence to maintain and my animals cannot get on to their lease and it helps keeping garbage, and trespassers off of my land. The weed idea is good, but again, it seems the landowner has to be the proactive one who checks the leases and calls in a concern--but if one could get an agreement to spray the weeds and so forth, then they might not get so out of control. But then, as I already have more to do than I can keep up with, I am wondering how much advantage it would be to take on yet another huge job at a very busy time of the year....isn't agriculture fun.

Yes, CBM is here to stay and yes, the oilies and the government are going to get it come hell or high water, but as you say, they have at least started to pay attention to the fact that this is new technology b/c of the way the coal seams lie--fracing the old deep wells was way down deep--coal seams and aquifers are all lying nearer to surface and it is a known fact that in the eastern part of the provice the coal seams actually come right out to surface--therefore, fracing them open will also allow any methane gas to come right to surface also--one other thought that I had is that in your contract you might want to include the fact that if an environmental assessment is required on your land--for reasons of sale or mortgage or whatever--that the oil co. is required to pay for it. Lending institutions are now very reluctant to lend money where there are wells or any kind, and where there is a proliferation of CBM wells and pipelines on land, they will not lend money--too great of an environmental risk to them...just heard that east of Irricana there has been a huge pipeline leak--yet again. I am not sure, but think it is the old MGV company--they have changed their name to something new and fancy--same old sloppy work. My neighbors to the west just had to go through that for years--smell, her being sick, etc. etc., until they finally realized the line had not been coated propertly, thus it had to be dug up--hugs holes dug to take out the dirt where the main leak was, and then replace the line with all the resultant mess in the fields, damage to native grass etc. etc. She had complained for a couple of years about the smell and headaches etc., but of course what could a mere landowner know about the changes in the environment in which they have lived for 40 years!!! Oh best not get started....Cowman, I am going to send cakadu my list of points to consider under separate email, but if you want it for a reference or reading, let me know and I will forward it to you as well...good luck.

[cakadu]

Good points all. I wonder just how far the limits will go and how big a cheque these guys will write in order to get onto your land?

Sagewood, thank you for sending me the list. I have a huge suspicion that it will come in handy when they come knocking. I'll make sure my spouse knows about it to just in case they come knocking when I'm not home. I've told him all along to NOT let them start talking any kind of compensation until we get everything else looked after.

Cowman, just because they know more now, it doesn't necessarily mean they know enough. They just know what didn't work before. We are embarking on things that we have never done and certainly not to the degree, extent and pace they are occuring now. We tend to look at water as something that will always be there, but it and land are the two things we cannot make any more of. Once they are gone, they're gone.

It is sad to think about, but one day water will become more valuable than diamonds. We're going to negotiate the best that we can, but I will never roll over for them.

[grassfarmer]

sagewood,
Would appreciate a copy of your email also. "info@luingcattle.com"
thanks

[sagewood]

Good points on the water cakadu. Without the water, the land is pretty much useless for ag. related activities, not to mention residency--I do believe we are past the days when one can shower in the spring and the fall, or even on Sat. night in a tub in the middle of the kitchen!

Anyway, have sent my list to you this a.m. (Monday) and will send it to you too grassfarmer..let me know if you have questions, or do not receive it...good luck to us all--information is power and I for one will continue to attend land owner meetings--to continue to be updated on happenings in the area....