New farm aid program

[melvill]

Yes, you're right, Tom. I've got "put" on the brain or I was just having a blond moment. You take your pick.

Yes, to protect against Cdn$ increase in value, use call options.

Good thing you noticed it.

[dfarms11]

Where is the info on this program?

[wilagro]

The amount of GROSS Sales is NOT the whole indicator of Net profitability. It is only one indicator and not the end all or be all.

I know of farmer/ranchers with gross incomes of well over 100 thousand who are skating close to bankruptcy. Circumstances of weather, market conditions and international trade can turn things around rather quickly.

Also know small (half-section) farmers who turn a profit every year. Like my Dad always said: "It isn't what you make but what you spend."

In other words, good management is as important as good fortune.

[rook]

kpb you raise a good point about what is a farmer. On the one hand farmers have more political clout when everyone who grosses 10K is called a farmer. However, if you look at policy, personally I don't want and I don't think taxpayers want policy that treats all farmers the same. We need to ensure farm policy is directed at commercial farmers to help them compete rather than win votes from hobby farmers. Unfortunately, politics comes into play and what is good for the industry doesn't necessarily win you votes for the next election.

[Ron]

this is the link to the program


http://www.agr.gc.ca/policy/income/options/main_e.html

if i did it right?

[kpb]

I think rook has hit the nail on the head. I do not dispute that small farmers can make money. Good on them I say. But if your farm grosses less than $50,000 I don't care how good your managment is, you are not going to be able to raise a family in a reasonable way, or receive a decent return on capital, on whatever you are able to net out.


My point is exactly what rook described quite well. If as an industry we want to be treated seriously by the government and the people of Canada we cannot include as bona fide farmers everyone who has two mules and a goat. There has to be a reasonable expectation of a viable self-sustaining business or we'll just get laughed at. I think the $50,000 threshold is more than fair and very attainable to anyone who is serious about full-time farming.

kpb

[ProFarmer]

My opinion would be any farmer with a gross income below 50000 should be considered just a hobby farmer and not a full time farmer. With todays imputs you have to have a mimimun net income of 30000 just for a family of four to survive. At a 25% margin you would need minimun of 120,000 gross. In conclusion to get involved in these programs and not just just holding the hand of the hobby farmer. You would need the income of 640 acres of land and minimum of 100cows or 500 ewes before Iwould call you a hardworking fulltime farmer with today's tecnology.You may think that you are busy with 200 crop or a hundred ewes but realistly that is not full time!

[WoolyBear]

A family with 200 ewes or 50 to 100 cows, and a section of pasture and hay would be very busy and it could very well be full time. Many of them are doing the work without fancy new machinery, or elaborate facilites that we see in some farm yards.

Big acres, and big machinery doesn't make one a good farmer. Most of them might also put in more hours per year, than some huge grain farmers, given that these small "HOBBY FARMERS" as you call them do it all with their OWN labour! Livestock, in combination with a little crop land is also a YEAR ROUND job.

Take a big farm, and divide their gross by either hours worked, or # of hired hands and see what happens.

[coppertop]

Good points WoolyBear. There are many farmers who have chosen to do without all the fancy gadgets, bells and whistles etc., to remain debt free, and certainly aren't hobby farmers. I agree that there are many involved in agriculture that look to government programs to help them that aren't really full time farmers. Some are working off the farm to keep afloat and there are those that have good off farm income and line up for every government program they can.

[Rodjam]

I remember reading the average number of cattle on a farm is somewhere near 30 head. It would be interesting to see the percentage of cattle on farms under this 80-100 number mentioned. This program may end up seeing all the money go to the guys with big cow numbers, sorta reminds me of where all the BSE money went.........packers! Seems to me there are will be alot of farmers that drive new pickups collecting most of the money. Lets face it, there will not be a program that will meet everyones needs or expectations.