Killing with kindness...?

[cowman]

I think the point here was the companies can get more selling the raw product to American refineries than what they can make by building refineries in Alberta?
All very well for some politician to spout off about "We need to value add and create the jobs in Alberta"...but not really possible unless you want to violate NAFTA...or throw massive subsidies to the company!
The forestry thing is a scandal...and is mainly responsible for the whole softwood scandal? The American stumpage fees are quite a bit higher than in Canada. One reason we need to harmonize our systems so we have a level playing field?
The large American packing houses don't have to go through all the BS Canadian packers do? Might have something to do with profitability?
In Dodge city they hire 800 workers a day right at the gate at the Cargill plant. At the end of the day they pay them cash! A guy sits at a card table with a strongbox and two shotgun armed guards and pays the workers off! You get hurt on the job they bandage you up and throw you out the gate!

[wilagro]

My gawd...cowman, you sound like you are advocating 19th century capitalism where workers had no protection or rights.

Workers worldwide fought to improve their working conditions and YOU are supporting those who would deny these rights to today's working person.

I am afraid that you and I will not agree on many things, especially politics. I dare say that I won't even mention religion.

[cowman]

Not advocating 19th century capitalism, just saying how it is at the Cargill plant at Dodge City.
Isn't one bit different with most of the consumer goods we buy? Clothes, electronics, toys etc.? All made in China at slave labor rates.
I didn't invent globalism, but I have to live with it just like you?
I think one of the mistakes people make in regard to the countries exports, is that they believe they belong to Canada...and that is just not the case? They belong to the individual business that is producing them? Now unless we want to take away personal property rights how do these "enlightened politicians" propose we keep it here? Maybe we need to put oil, lumber, cattle under some kind of organiization like the Canadian wheat board...where the farmer grows the grain but doesn't have the right to sell it to whoever he chooses? Sort of going back to the old Soviet System where the government decided how you would live? Well I guess we know how that worked out.
Oilmen, lumbermen, cattle ranchers and grain farmers all want to get as high a price as possible for their products? They really don't care where it goes or if the country add some jobs by processing it here? The market should decide who gets the raw product not some government rules that keep the price artificially low?

[coppertop]

Geez,cowman, its fine and dandy for companies to get more for their raw product by shipping it out of Alberta, but what about the Alberta tax payers return on the products that they have subsidized by low royalties for years? We talk about packers ruling the beef industry and think that is horrible but the oil companies rule this province on Albertans dollar. We have the resources here so while being a province that welcomes the industry we need to get the best bang for our buck vs giving the stuff away to line the pockets of big business.

[ivbinconned]

"We,WE,WE!"

Where does this come from? This mind set that suggests that what the risk takers and investors find...belongs to us all!

Wilagrow and coppertop...I will trade you properties even up, acre for acre. Then you could live in a jurisdiction more in line with your socalist view of the world!

[coppertop]

the law of the land says that the resources belong to the people of Alberta, Sask. etc. I have never advocated a nanny state but I don't want to see the next generation saddled with huge debt in infrastructure, social issues etc. because we have frittered all our non-renewable resources away without adequate return.
Exploration for resources doesn't just cost the energy companies money, it costs millions of tax dollars a year to maintain infrastructure both provincial and municipal.

[wilagro]

Again I agree with coppertop. Sorry cowman, you are out-voted.

[spudchucker]

It doesn't cost money to explore for oil and gas? Where does that come from? Is Precision donating rigs for free these days? Are the rigs staffed by volunteers? Give your head a shake!

[coppertop]

spudchucker, if you read my post you will see I said exploration doesn't JUST cost energy companies money, it costs Albertans as well.

[cowman]

Spudchucker: Boy are you a refreshing voice on here...after all the old "we've got it, we aren't going to share it, Alberta BS!"
I was hoping someone other than the "establishment" might say it like it is!
Drivelling about "sustainability" and "progrssive growth"? Sounds like a bunch of old ladies dithering about what is appropriate and what is not?!
Let's rock and roll and enjoy the good times!!!

[spudchucker]

Hello Coppertop
You are right, I misread it, however I am all for economic growth in the oilfield. This is coming from someone who came out to the oilfield from the east with nothing but dept and is now comfortable. The oilfield is a great opportunity for anyone who wants to get ahead and doesn't mind working hard.

[coppertop]

no-one is denying that the oilfield is a great place to earn a living, both my sons and my grandson and his wife work at excellent, high paying jobs.
However, I am not the only one that is concerned about negative effect of the currrent boom. The Mayor of Wood Buffalo which encompasses all the Fort. Mac oilsands has begged the EUB not to approve anymore licences until the city of Fort Mac. can address the pressures on infrastructure, housing etc.

All construction projects are coming in way over budget, and this includes highway construction and remedial work. It means that the province is only doing 1/3 of the normal remedial work in highways this fiscal year. Each year that the highways deteriorate further, adds to the infrastructure debt that someone, sometime is going to be shouldered with.

My concerns are the lack of consistent land use policy within the province, which is allowing ad hoc growth, without due attention to the environment and water issues.

Water is going to be a huge issue in Alberta, and sooner than later. It is getting excedingly difficult to obtain a lic. to divert water from the North Saskatchewan River, so once industry has all their share, what will be left for human consumption ?????