Killing with kindness...?

[cowman]

This is just common sense? If an American offers me $700 for a calf and a Canadian offers me $600, who do you think I am going to sell to? Do you think I should sell for less for the good of adding value to the end product?
I wonder if the oil companies are dumber than me? Or maybe they are like these super Canadian patriots, willing to do their part for the good of Canada?
The government should not be involved in picking winners and losers in private business? Wasn't that the PC mantra? Get government out of business?
What politicians say during an election campaign...and what they actually do are two different things? Do we really want to go back to the days when government lost billions on all these boondoggles?

[coppertop]

cowman, we have one leadership candidate promsing to address the issues within the forestry sector by REVIEWING the stumpage fees, which already are nothing short of a pittance! Now, to me, that equates to giving away resources that belong to Albertans. What difference do you see between Albertans losing billions by selling off SML's to huge corporations like Weyerhaeuser,for next to nothing, and topping off the cost to build refineries? I have NOT heard of any candidate that is advocating provincial funds going to help build refineries by the way !

Don't worry, if there is big money to be made by selling refined bitumin, and companies can't make the bucks any other way, they will build whatever it takes.

[cowman]

I think the point here was the companies can get more selling the raw product to American refineries than what they can make by building refineries in Alberta?
All very well for some politician to spout off about "We need to value add and create the jobs in Alberta"...but not really possible unless you want to violate NAFTA...or throw massive subsidies to the company!
The forestry thing is a scandal...and is mainly responsible for the whole softwood scandal? The American stumpage fees are quite a bit higher than in Canada. One reason we need to harmonize our systems so we have a level playing field?
The large American packing houses don't have to go through all the BS Canadian packers do? Might have something to do with profitability?
In Dodge city they hire 800 workers a day right at the gate at the Cargill plant. At the end of the day they pay them cash! A guy sits at a card table with a strongbox and two shotgun armed guards and pays the workers off! You get hurt on the job they bandage you up and throw you out the gate!

[wilagro]

My gawd...cowman, you sound like you are advocating 19th century capitalism where workers had no protection or rights.

Workers worldwide fought to improve their working conditions and YOU are supporting those who would deny these rights to today's working person.

I am afraid that you and I will not agree on many things, especially politics. I dare say that I won't even mention religion.

[cowman]

Not advocating 19th century capitalism, just saying how it is at the Cargill plant at Dodge City.
Isn't one bit different with most of the consumer goods we buy? Clothes, electronics, toys etc.? All made in China at slave labor rates.
I didn't invent globalism, but I have to live with it just like you?
I think one of the mistakes people make in regard to the countries exports, is that they believe they belong to Canada...and that is just not the case? They belong to the individual business that is producing them? Now unless we want to take away personal property rights how do these "enlightened politicians" propose we keep it here? Maybe we need to put oil, lumber, cattle under some kind of organiization like the Canadian wheat board...where the farmer grows the grain but doesn't have the right to sell it to whoever he chooses? Sort of going back to the old Soviet System where the government decided how you would live? Well I guess we know how that worked out.
Oilmen, lumbermen, cattle ranchers and grain farmers all want to get as high a price as possible for their products? They really don't care where it goes or if the country add some jobs by processing it here? The market should decide who gets the raw product not some government rules that keep the price artificially low?

[coppertop]

Geez,cowman, its fine and dandy for companies to get more for their raw product by shipping it out of Alberta, but what about the Alberta tax payers return on the products that they have subsidized by low royalties for years? We talk about packers ruling the beef industry and think that is horrible but the oil companies rule this province on Albertans dollar. We have the resources here so while being a province that welcomes the industry we need to get the best bang for our buck vs giving the stuff away to line the pockets of big business.

[ivbinconned]

"We,WE,WE!"

Where does this come from? This mind set that suggests that what the risk takers and investors find...belongs to us all!

Wilagrow and coppertop...I will trade you properties even up, acre for acre. Then you could live in a jurisdiction more in line with your socalist view of the world!

[coppertop]

the law of the land says that the resources belong to the people of Alberta, Sask. etc. I have never advocated a nanny state but I don't want to see the next generation saddled with huge debt in infrastructure, social issues etc. because we have frittered all our non-renewable resources away without adequate return.
Exploration for resources doesn't just cost the energy companies money, it costs millions of tax dollars a year to maintain infrastructure both provincial and municipal.

[wilagro]

Again I agree with coppertop. Sorry cowman, you are out-voted.

[spudchucker]

It doesn't cost money to explore for oil and gas? Where does that come from? Is Precision donating rigs for free these days? Are the rigs staffed by volunteers? Give your head a shake!