Slowing the Economy?

[coppertop]

There are many areas where no forward thinking is coming back to haunt us. Land use is one, the current push to have new land use policies in place by March is certainly a knee jerk reaction to the current demand for various types of land uses across the province.
Many municipalities urban and rural have chosen to spend millions on recreational facilities, monuments, etc. vs installing new utility lines or upgrading existing infrastructure. The province has elected to do only 200 kms of highway overlays this year vs the ususal 1500 due to the soaring costs. That leaves a 1300 km infrastructure debt to be carried over, and if we continue to go on this way the next generation will be saddled with either no decent highways or the cost to repair them, perhaps in a different and not as affluent economy.

I know that over the past three years the highways have deteriorated significantly and I am not convinced its all due to the heavy traffic, I think that the lack of understanding of by caucus of the importance of maintaining the existing highway system has had a lot to do with where the dollars have been spent. The rural MLA's are few and far between,and many that consider themselves rural have the majority of their residents in large urban centers.

[blackjack]

...i understand coppertop but i don't put much hope on govt...why do we pay these bureaucrats if they have no vision until it hits them between the ears...they must have know areas like ft.mac were going to boom...is that not why all our tax dollars go into studying what has to be done but never gets done...sure government has a place but from what i see most of their track records shows they usually react after the fact...in saying that the other provinces make alberta look like a rose...

[coppertop]

blackjack, I will be the first to agree that we have far to many bureaucrats, I sometimes wonder if the cart is driving the horse. We need bureaucrats to carry out the directions given by elected representatives, not the other way around.

[cropduster]

Your key words here, Coppertop,I believe are `elected representatives`.If they only wish to represent then we will have no movement.If tho` they should happen to be `visionary` representatives then I believe they will strive for positive movement.Bureaucrats on the other hand have NO incentive whatsoever to make change...they have chosen to get paid the same every two weeks....sure there are raises along the way....but do they have TRUE reason for motivation??I think not.It`s the working Albertan`s out there that can and will be the ones to MAKE this province.We need a true `visionary` type leader not a `slickster` but someone who will `clear the path`(if you will) for Albertans to build this province even more!!

[cowman]

What should the role of government be? What do we need them to do for us?
Do we need to be fed daily by the government? Do we need them to find us a home and tuck us in at night? Sort of like the old Soviet Union?
An amazing thing happens when the government gets out of treating us like a bunch of babies...people get out and hustle and take care of themselves! I would suggest living in a tent at forty below might just be a good incentive to work hard and get ahead?
My own opinion is the government should do three things: law and enforcement, the public infrastructure, the military. Now maybe even some of these could be privatized, not sure but maybe?
Coppertop: I've not been in the "loop" lately and don't know all the details of this provincial land use policy? I wonder if it will be like the "Red Deer County" land use policy, where they spent huge amounts of money coming up with a policy only to violate it themselves? And thereby open the door to what has become NO policy? All those studies, public meetings, paper shuffling, etc. for nothing?
I wonder how many of you "Sustained slowed down growth" advocates have talked to some of these young guys working in the oil patch? They come from some God forsaken hole in Newfoundland(or wherever) with no hope and they come here where anything is possible! Suddenly they see a future for themselves and their families!
All this "slow the economy" is, is this: I've got a sweet life here and I don't want to share it! Everybody deserves a chance in this world...not a guarantee of success but a chance! You want to take away that "chance" from a lot of young people? How fair is that?
God gave us a brain and two hands. How well we use them will determine how well we do. But everyone needs a chance to use both! Just my opinion.

[coppertop]

The economy will slow itself down if oil prices continue on the downslide. No incentive for companies to work over old wells to get them into production for one thing. Cowman, the youngsters from the Maritimes may be making big money but if they have no trade to fall back on what will happen to them when things do slow down.
The Land Use Policy Framework is looking at all land uses, and perhaps there will be changes in which jurisdiction is responsible for some of the zoning etc. At this point,every village, town, city and rural jurisdiction has their own land use by-law, and if they are of a certain popultation they are also required to have a municipal development plan, which means, that there are well over 1000 different land use by-laws,etc. in the province.
Each area treats land zoning in a different manner. If you drive around the province and see some of the haphazard planning in some communities you will know what I mean.
Industry and residential developers need some commonality across the province, and people who are land users need some security as far as future planning in their area goes.
For instance, if you buy into a nice retirement condo in the urban fringe of a town or village, it would be nice to be assured that you weren't going to have a large industrial facility blocking your view . At this time, municipalities can change zoning with a show of hands. In this community there is a new development on the edge of town and someone is building an apartment RIGHT behind the vet clinic, talk about conflicting zoning !
Our county has approved five small parcels adjacent to two feedlots, and people currently either building houses or moving mobile homes onto these properties. The two feedlots operators can count on at more complaints when they spread manure, haul cattle, process newly weaned calves etc., plus the newly amended AOPA legislation provides a clause allowing an existing livestock operation a .77 percent expansion if they cannot meet their Minimum Distance Separation, so each of these operations could expand an additional 75% and the people who have spent money developing their NEW ACREAGES cannot do a thing about it, but the potential is there for continuing conflicts that could have been avoided had the county used their noggins !
I am hoping that the new Land Use Policy Framework has teeth and ensures that there is land set aside for FOOD PRODUCTION.
In your area cowman, some of the best land in the province is rapidly disappearing under concrete but there are many areas that do not have the same pressure to develop, and those areas need to be zoned properly not by pressure at the local level.

[cowman]

Coppertop: Who decides what land should be set aside for "food production"? Some clown in government...or the poor bugger going broke trying to produce the food?
Sounds like the BC gong show where the orchards were going broke because prices were so poor...but the dumb farmer was expected to "feed the world" instead of getting a fair price for his land!... the land bank?
How fair is this? Lets see: The public won't pay enough to keep the farmer viable...but they expect him to carry on anyway! This is totally unacceptable to any sane person? Maybe you should consider taking out a membership in the NDP party?

[cakadu]

Cowman, sometimes I really find it hard to see where your logic comes from.

The kinds of things being referred to in this posting are more fundamental than just getting out there and making a buck. Take the couple (or even individuals) who have paid a down payment to get a house built and then get told that they are getting their deposits back unless they are willing to pay an additional $30,000. There are items in building contracts now, known as "escalation clauses", which means if the costs go up, then you pay more or you don't get your house built. I know of a young lass who had bought (or so she thought) a condo, only to have it slip out of her fingers this week because the sub-contractors told the contractor that they were not going to honour their commitments. The contractor then turned around and told her that if she wanted her condo built, she (and the others who were waiting for them to be built) had to pony up another $30,000 or they would get their deposit back. Needless to say, she has her deposit back and is out a house.

As far as having no education and/or employable skills to fall back on - that will become a huge issue in the years to come. Right now there is a huge push to build all these technologically advanced manufacturing facilites etc., that employ lean manufacturing and the like. Finding the labour to build them is one thing, but an even greater issue is going to be finding people to run the equipment. They are going to have to have technical and business skills to be able to do the job. More than a high school education is going to be required. There will be another labour crunch, perhaps of even greater severity, in another 5 to 7 years.

We can choose to ignore the warning signs for all of this hyper-development and growth or we can try to take steps to mitigate the risks and the consequences now.

Personally, I would much rather see the deer and the moose out grazing in the fields than look at a compressor or a drilling derrick anyday.

To me, we need to put ourselves in someone else's shoes every once in a while because things are never, ever as simple as they seem.

[blackjack]

...you just answered another question coppertop...when the oil prices go down the economy will slow...so why would you want it to slow so everyone can cry about how it was in the good old days out in alberta...kinda reminds me of the good old days in 2000 and 01 when i sold grass yearlings for over 1200 dollars a head and at a lot less cost than today...i keep on dreamin about when that day might come again...lol...

[coppertop]

The buzz word from three leadership candidates is to ensure we are not shippping raw product from the oilsands, so that would mean that things would slow down while facilities are built to refine bitumin. That should not be doom and gloom, just the opportunity for a few more Albertans and others to earn a good living in this province.

[cowman]

I think it should be a concern when politicians start talking about "value adding"? Just what does that mean?
Does it mean the Alberta citizen is going to be on the hook for the cost?
If the Encanas of the world are selling raw product to the USA because they can get more money for it than refining it here...that usually means economic sense says it should be processed there?
Its no different when we got in this big flap over building packing plants? The fact was a Canadian packing plant just couldn't compete with US packers! So after all the running around wringing our hands,what happened...the cattle went south!
If big oil can make more money shipping tarsands south why would they even consider building refineries here? To lose money?...I don't think so?
Now mind you if they can get some dumb politician to put up billions of taxpayer money...they just might reconsider?

[cowman]

Linda: In a market economy thats just how it is. Some win and some lose.
You quote the girl who lost her condo because she wouldn't pay the extra money...obviously someone else would? All the other condo owners just saw their value go up another $30K!
Thats the situation today. What is the alternative? Should we have a regulated housing market? Maybe like the good old Soviet Union?
As far as a labor crunch...well if the money is there the workers will come...if not the plant will sit idle! A lot of restaurants/fast food joints are experiencing this right now...especially the cheap skate ones who want to pay peon wages while they rake in a fortune! And then cry about no labor available! You pay enough and they will be knocking down the door!