Pipelines

[Horse]

Cowman or anyone with info on pipelines ? What is the rates in your part of the province ? I have had some here but this is closer to Edmonton on land I am selling and dont realy want a pipeline but am told they will go to arbitration and put the line in anyway. Has anyone got anual rent?Is there any chance of a renewal clause in a given #of yrs.This is all under ground and close to 1/2 mi with preliminary price of about $4000 easement and entry? Land man is coming this evening hope to hear something that may help.

[cowman]

Horse: Not quite sure what figures you are working with but $4000 is a joke if that is the total amount without damages/loss of production? I would think $10,000 would be a lot closer?...Damages/loss of use on top of that!
Land is valued at $2700 here but that can vary a lot depending where you are situated? I would suspect you should be in that ballpark figure!
Listen to the landman, then say you just don't think you can deal with this and tell him you need a lawyer. Any kind of reputable company will agree...at their expense! If he doesn't agree contact the Farmers advocate...because you are entitled to legal advice...AT THEIR EXPENSE! IT IS THE LAW!
A good local oil and gas lawyer knows the ropes and will tell you what you can expect to get and protect your interests. Don't let some slicker run you...you have rights and you can protect your interests and get the maximum amount coming to you!

[Ron]

you mean 4000/ac right? 500/ac access fee and 3500/ac land cost? crop damages on top of that?

[northfarmer]

get a lawyer, anyway, I reccomend Darryl Carter from Grande Prairie, we use his firm on all oil and gas access matters.....the oil/gas companies pay the bill, it is your right under the law

[farmers_son]

I am aware of instances where annual rent has been paid on pipelines as well and other instances where there was a renewal clause. It is up to you to negotiate your best deal. The company land agent is not there to help you.

If you really do not want the pipeline on your property it is often possible to get them to move. For certain do not sign or initial anything, nothing at all. Get good advice, Darryl Carter is good although he seems to be taking a lot of holidays these days.

Especially close to Edmonton, a pipeline on your land may restrict your ability to realize full value when you sell as a pipeline restricts where and what kind of future development could happen on the property.

[coppertop]

Many applications that come to the Municipal Planning Commission are hampered by the existance of pipelines. A lot of these are requests for development permits to build homes or move in pre built ones, pipelines criss crossing the property certainly pose a challenge.

[cowman]

Ron: Land values, not overall payment per acreage, otherwise you are right. If you are getting land values at $4,000 then all I can say is you are one hell of a negotiator!
The oil/gas company has a set price for a township for land values and nobody gets anymore! Now that doesn't mean there is no more money...they just don't want to set a precedent, no matter how hungry they are!
Consultant fees....that is the answer! The landman can bury that with no problem!
But bottom line is this...get a lawyer.

[Horse]

Here is the poop acording to the land man 2000/acre for easement 1000 for temp work space 500 entry fee. I didnt sign but they say it will go to the surfice rights and then they go ahead anyway now I wonder whitch dam country I am living in I still pay the taxes but dont have a say. They do have a aternatr route but it is through sloughs and farther around.
I talked to a lawyer and he said he will look at the contract but does not negoate. So it is still up to us in the end. They wont even talk about anual rent or a term on the easement, they said nova did some of that a few yrs back and the industry realy took offence to that idea as it sets presedent and you are right cowman it is set on an area scale.
Dont know just what to do but I have until thursday to give my decision, mabey try to milk them for the legal fees and give in, its less than 1/2 mi but it sure gets me when I have to agree to something 20or30 yrs in the future not that I will be here then but after working all my life to pay off a place and then told what I can do with it kind of erks me.
Have a Happy

[farmers_son]

Some things you should know... Yes the company can go ahead anyway if you do not accept their offer. However the process involved is lengthy and very expensive provided you have not given the company your OK on location or for them to obtain a pipeline permit. It is very important that you sign nothing.

The compensation you have mentioned does seem low to me for your area.

If you wanted, I could look into some things for you. If you provided the land location involved and the name of the company I could do some digging and see what comes up. Quite often the landowner is in a much better negotiating position than they realize.

[coppertop]

Good advice Farmers_Son. Landmen love to give ultimatums, deadlines etc., but standing firm on your price if its reasonable, and going to the Surface Rights Board might be your best route. The Surface Rights Board website has all recent decisions posted so you can look through them and see whether or not there are any that are similar to yours, and how the Board treated those.

[bward]

Get a hold of this lady.

Norma LaFonte
LCS - LaFonte Consulting Service
"A Landowner's Perspective"
Land Advocate, Interim Land Agent License # 1774
Phone: (403) 934-2393
nmlafonte@aol.com

She is a power house when it comes to surface rights. What most people don't realize is that a pipeline will Permenantly affect future use of your land. You can't subdivide, you can't cross it to harvest gravel, sand etc. Don't sign anything today, until you talk to this lady.

[Ron]

my agreement didnt get me anual rental
BUT if and when an annual rent is put in place it applies to my place retroactively.
Also I know of a fellow who has time so insisted he or his son inspect each piece of equipment that enters for $250/inspection and he has turned equipment back 4 times in a row as it wasnt clean enough.
Thats the only way you will know for sure they are following any agreement and dont inspect it for free. A man (self qualified weed inspector)with a pickup is worth $100/hour in the patch with a minimum callout of 4 hours so 250 is cheap for them. That is with 24 hours notice as well (no phone calls at 7:00 am saying they will be at the lease at 7:15 meet them there if you want to inspect BS). I worked with Paul Vasseur (used to be with the farmers advocate office) and was very happy with the results

vasseurp@telusplanet.net

[coppertop]

The only problem with that scenario Ron is that if the landowner inspects the equipment and allow it onto the property, how are you going to go back on the company if you end up with noxious weeds in a year or two ?

[Ron]

Very good point, if you do this you have to be vigilant. In my case NAL already screwed up and had equipment on without washing and have accepted responsibility for any possible contamination in writing so anything that shows up is their problem but I hadnt thought about your scenario.
Possibly better off to have the oil company inspect with you doing random audits?
Has anybody heard about 3rd party environmental assessments before and after?

[coppertop]

In one case on my property I insisted on having an independent environmental consultant involved in a reclaimation project. This was invoiced back to the oil company, so there was no out of pocket expense on my part. The consultant was onsite when any remedial work was undertaken, and certainly represented my interests during the entire process.
Some companies are very good to deal with, while others will use every loop hole possible to get out of assuming responsiblity.