Pipelines

[sundance]

Ron

I have a pipeline coming in, I am going to try to get the annual rental clause. It is a small company named Optimus.
Would you share the name of the company you have just dealt ?

[Horse]

Petro Reef is the company I am dealing with whitch is also a small player.They wont even talk about anual rent unless there is above ground structures and mabey not even then.
I looked on the surface rights decisions on the net and I dont know why but they awaraded 6000/acre and 3000 temp work space on a lot of decisions but they are range 20/21 where mine is in range 26 ,much the same quality of land and I am offered 2000/acre I realy dont know why but I brought it up with the land man but didnt get far with that so will wait and see whats next.

[coppertop]

Don't back down horse, landmen are given so much leeway, and I would suspect they less they have to pay out for right of entry, the bigger their commission.

[farmers_son]

I did a little checking. Petro-Reef has been doing a lot of work in Township 55 Range 26. If that is your area, Petro Reef got a pipeline permit on 33/055/26/4 just over a week ago. They may want to construct your line at the same time. Just speculating.

I would recommend you get someone to help you if you want to hold tough for what you want. The landmen can be tricky and when push comes to shove they are not real honest. I always say if a landman says nice day isn't it, that you need to look out the window just to be sure. Do not believe a word those scoundrels say.

Your ability to negotiate a price that is satisfactory is sometimes influenced by the company's ability to go around you. If your land is situated so the company has to deal with you that helps. Or if these is a geographical feature that would make an alternate route difficult, that helps too. Pipelines are expensive to build, the amount of money you get is really nothing. However they will spend $10,000 to go around you rather than pay you a fair price.

The company will completely recover all the money they will pay you in only a few days shipping gas underneath your property. I always say that landowners are not negotiating a right of way when the landman comes calling, they are negotiating for your cooperation and for quick construction of the line. While it is true that they can go to the SRB that process takes months and the costs involved plus the loss of income from no gas sales while that is happening would easily exceed $100,000.

[Ron]

Sundance, the company is NAL, Paul
Vasseur worked on my behalf and he said the provision for rental applying retroactively (when/if it becomes law) is standard in the stuff he adds to the agreement.

[Horse]

Thanks for all the insight ,we will see how she goes if and when they get back to me.

[dsinclair]

You may find some answers at www.pipeline-landowners.com The federal gov't insitituted a number of laws which severely limit development within the pipeline right of way and as stated how much "weight" can go across the pipeline. In some cases farmers must construct a land bridge over the ROW because of the movement of heavy loads. Did you ask to see the landman's credential's? Sometimes smaller companies try to slide someone in who is not accredited. Also, when bargaining, one must consider the loss of use of the land for a certain number of years. This is particularly true in the case of leases. What is going to be transported in the pipeline? Will it ever be used to transport sour? Who would be responsible for clean-up should there be a break? There was an instance out east where a salt water line ruptured and the land owner was stuck for the clean up. Have to be careful with little companies- they often sell or move their interests to another company and then there is no one left to take responsibility. We are supposed to have a 40" line go through our land in the next 5 years. We have an existing line there already. Our concern is for the future use of our land. This pipeline will totally destroy our ability to develop which in our case is important. In the short term, we loose pasture, but what about the long term, and that I believe is what you need to consider. Remember, even though it is small, you still own those precious 8 inches on the surface, and they have to go through that to get what they want.

[GreenValley]

other option, tell them (pipeline consultant) to lay pipeline down deeper 8 to 10 feet from normal 4 feet as I did told them do that, they will honor my word. They do lay pipeline 10 feet down from ground level on corner end that may use for future approach crossing road.

Wonder anyone get Loss of Use payment for pipeline Right Way, ie:
on stubble crop land they usually pay 100% on 1st year and 2nd and 3nd year nothing. On pasture and hay land usually pay 100% on 1st year and 60% on 2nd year and 40% on 3rd year. Any one has similar deal on stubble crop land that payment only once 1st year and nothing year after. Sound not fair.

[cowman]

Around here it is 100% first year 50% second year and 25% third year...on hay/pasture or crop land! Of course they want to pay $350/acre on crop land and pasture at $200/acre!
Which is total BS? I takes a lot more to get hay/pasture back in production than cropland...although either way you will be dealing with rocks for several years to come(and maybe some exotic new weeds!)! Every year they just seem to "sprout" from the ground!
No one should ever go for this BS about less money for pasture? Just tell the landman you'll run the cultivator over it a few times if it will make him feel better about paying you cropland prices!
I am negotiating a pipeline right now and have asked for seeding and spraying costs? I am asking for $150/acre to seed(meadow brome), $150/acre to spray(Tordon 22K) and $100/hr. to pick the rocks! Also asking for my 100%/50%/25% to be paid up front in the first year? Pretty sure I'll get it.

[cowman]

One more thing: I see this all the time: The oil/gas company has a clause in the agreement that they will control the weeds. Sounds good right? But if you aren't on top of things and complain long and hard...good luck! This problem is especially a problem in hayland where alphafa is present!
Many times the farmer doesn't recognize some exotic little weed and so doesn't take the precautions needed? A couple of years pass and our little "friend" has multiplied and spread itself just about all over the field! Just try to get the oil company to do something then!
Back in the mid eighties an ethane line crossed some crop land my old man owned. It grew a nice crop of green foxtail, which we had never seen before! The next couple of years it was all over the farm! In the end the Treflan to clean up the mess was more than he got for the pipeline!
Another true example: A local dairy farmer had 120 acres of new alphalfa that had a pipeline go across it? The company reseeded the pipeline to alphalfa. He noticed some little low plants with nice purple flowers but never thought much about it. Within two years these plants were all over the field. They were Storks Bill and his only solution was to spray out the hay field with Roundup and work it up. He then grew a barley cover crop and reseeded to alphalfa...it came back in just about solid Storks Bill! So down it went again and will probably be permanent barley silage land for a long, long time! But this isn't the end of his problem? Now his pastures have Storks Bill in them and it is going to cost him some major dollars to get rid of it! He doesn't have a lot of options as the weed inspector is after him and he's in a bind!
The gas company basically told him to go pound sand! I think it will cost him several thousands more than he ever got for the pipeline!

[GreenValley]

On pasture RW pipeline seeding to grass that has been drown and may need reseeding in small patch next year as they saying will do that, mark their words. They give me 225/ac for pasture. The company installed electric fence along RW pipeline but do not supply to run it. So I charge them 200 for maintenance, solar, battery, electric shocker. 2 hour handpack spraying 100. Disc workup 60. Fall harvest round up spraying 50. 1 hour tractor time to cover dirt for approach crossing on RW pipeline 100. The rest the company won't pay for inconvenience like cult, spraying, seeding, swathing combine cuz the field is divide into half from SW corner to NE corner angle. This condition make hard on machinery as each corner point has sharp each end. Instead paying 1200 inconvenience didn't what I asking 1800 for inconvenience (cult, seeding, spray, swath, combine due to sharp corner point) say no deal, too much sharp corners, want more money, so landman called company and offer me other raise 300 of which is total 1200. Perhaps would be better if no pipeline at all, they can go other way around go next neighbour. This BS.

[sawfly]

we are new to this , we had well

connector lines go across 5 qtrs. of land we cash rent in a Y 2 years ago.

they paid us crop damage and some inconvenince. that fall . this last spring , what a mess they had somebody cultivate it once.

lots of rocks , and rough, i heavey harrowed it about 5 times . didnt help so i went home and had to get a cultivator (which we never use) cultivated 4 times.
seeded and with all the rain i bounced over the lines with the hi clear twice. the crop was was less than 1/2 10 -15 feet from the pipe.

they said they would be back this fall , to settle up , but no sign of them yet.
I had better get on the phone.

i really appreciate the info in this thread thanks everyone

[coppertop]

If you live in Alberta, contact the Farmer's Advocate they can advise you on how to get the company back to clean up the mess.

[cowman]

Sawfly: Pretty typical of a "winter" pipeline? I assume they did it in the winter if it was so rough?
Sometimes farmers think they are getting one hell of a deal...but quite often the realities are quite different?
You don't disturb the land without some consequences? We still get a fresh crop of rocks every year on that old ethane line!

[sawfly]

actually they plowed the line days before combineing. its a hard ridge to get rid of. the hard clays must be pushed up to the surface on the edges.
then the soft center is alwawys settleing. its like the bump is under the surface. we are gonna have to work the snot out of it to get rid of it.