Bitumen and Ed?

[ivbinconned]

..."wonder why????

oooooh must be something sinister here!!

I suppose if he had been born in Bagdad and his father had served under Sadam THAT would be ok?? Or had been born in China and his dad had been a communist...that would be ok too?

Give me a break!

Copper what I wrote was that you made a bigoted statement...and now you have done it again! THIS is an act of desperation. Pure discrimination based on Morton’s place of birth…shameful.

I had suggested that most everyone in Alberta is just one generation away from having been born somewhere else...maybe even you and yours! Care to comment this time...you did not last time??

I have followed the debate and it seems to me that Ed's way of governing would be to keep his finger moist and up in the wind so he would know which way to run... in order to stay in front.

He may be a good man but he strikes me as the kind of man that seems to subscribe to the popular secular notion that, "the truth lies somewhere in the middle"!! “I will listen to all sides.”

Let me show you how that kind of thinking is flawed and has gotten this world into a heap of trouble. Jim Dinning argues that 4 plus 4 equals 10 and Ted Morton agues that 4 plus 4 equals 8…
but then along comes Ed, and many in the media and those who we call middle of the road, those who like to consult and are too timid to take a stand or have strong views…thinking they are being “conciliatory” or “moderate” in their position … they give long winded arguments proclaiming that the “truth”… must be in the middle they declare… the answer must be 9.

Hey the mainstream does it all the time...deny reality!

Sadly a lot of lemmings believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle, an easy place from which to lead…takes no vision.

Copper you have uttered negative comments about the participation by Morton (one of six) in the writing of the “firewall” letter. I asked you if you had read it…you did not respond??

However you and some in the media, “condemn these men because they were so few. When, I ask, were the good and the brave ever in a majority”?

[wilagro]

iwasconned wrote:"Mark Twain said this of people like copper and horse and wilagrow etc who are scared of the significant change that Morton represents... "

Not much apparently as my bit bucket went empty...well anyway, what the heck does Mark Twain know about me? He has been kaput for over 100 years.

I am not scared of change...I say change this government and give us some normal, honest government...kind of like the one that I grew up with before the PCs came to power. We didn't NEED gambling to provide income for government services, we didn't need booze flowing seven days a week and 24 hours a day. We didn't need corporated tax relief to the tune of billions of dollars every year for the past 35 years and the slack taken up by the lowly consumer. We didn't need big elaborate spectacles in Washington DC to advertise our province and to highlite the fact that we had oilsands to exploit for next to nothing in royalty payments.

Changes are a part of life. We DON'T have to make change just because a few crackpots want us to conform to their rightwing agenda.

Morton is a troublemaker, in my opinion...nothing more and nothing less. Support him at your own peril.

[coppertop]

my background ivebin,is that I was adopted by two wonderful people who were old enough to be my grandparents. I have met my birth mother, and the family of my birth father who is deceased. They are Irish and Scottish background, making me a fourth generation Albertan by birth and by adoption a fourth generation Canadian, as both my wonderful parents came from Nova Scotia, and I am damn proud of both sets of parents, their background and values.

[ivbinconned]

I am sure you are and I am very happy for you. Albertan's nor I would hold nothing against you or them, and you ALL should be able to run for public office without "place of birth" being held against them.

The "firewall" letter...I assume you have not read it. Just a conveniant talking point??

[nicolaas]

COwman-- "Sorry...business just doesn't work that way! These darned companies have this nasty habit of wanting to make money...not supply some politician with a job!"

I don't know about that cowman. seems that John Deere could not get into the european market with their tractors due to high tarriffs. THey got around that by building numerous plants to make their tractors and parts in europe. Ever notice that John deere and just about every other tractor/combine companies parts are metric? and built in europe and the states? WHat about the toyota / honda setting up plants in North america to get around tarriffs? I may be wrong, but it seems obvious to me that if someone (ie the States) wants our product, THose refineries will be built here pronto. It is insane to buy ENCANAS argument. All it would take is an export tax on all unrefined product, qne none or a small one on refined product to get those refineries built. Good for the economy, good tradesman and engineering, high tech jobs in the support side, istead of high school drop out rig worker, cat skinner, hewer of wood- uneducated type jobs (sorry, but i have worked the oil patch and I know) THese politicians make me sick, I do not believe any of them will stand up for common sense and go against the oilmen and their farcical doom and gloom senerios. If one of them could assure me that they would do the above, then they would have my vote.

[Horse]

I was going to reply but I guess I had better get my pedigree updated before I say anything IBC seems a little sensetuive today . If it is just because you cant vote I am sure Ted could find you a ballot if It is all that important.
Coppertop I do have to wonder about your statement about fighting with ottawa as I rember that was Ralphs first defence for everything and I may be reading you wrong but I think I would bet you are a tory,so why would that be wrong now and not for the past 14yr.

[coppertop]

horse, Ralph's first defense was fighting with a LIBERAL government in Ottawa. Why would we need to fight with a Conservative government when the Alberta MP's are back here campaigning for the leadership candidate that is running on his Less Ottawa More Alberta theme ? Exactly how is he going to fight with the very same people that have helped him get into the premier's office if he wins??? Something like biting the hand that feeds you I would think. I don't know what you think about Quebec being given Nation within a Nation status but it makes my blood boil. We have spent billions in this country trying to keep Quebec in Canada, now we give them official special status, and Morton praises Harper for doing so well in Quebec.

Is he going to demand Nation within a Nation status for Alberta, or is he going to circle the wagons of BC,Saskatchewan and Alberta and shut his compadre's in Ottawa out ????

[cowman]

I wonder why all those Alberta MPs are coming back to help Morton? Is it because they see him as someone they can work with?
I think a lot of people never have understood the Harper agenda? It always was about giving more power back to the provinces...and thus saving this country from the slide into breaking up? Maybe you thought he was just another Paul Martin/Jean Chretien who didn't like gays or something?
Make no mistake here...Ted Morton and Stephen Harper are on the same page!
Now if Harper wins a majority next time out...then that is just peachy...they can work together to build a stronger country built on less federal government and more provincial responsibility?
The Liberal convention is generating a lot of interest? Could be Iggy? Could be Bob Rae? The chances of the Liberals being back in power look very good...pretty soon?
Now without a doubt I am sure a Jim Dinning or Ed Stelmach will have few problems rolling over for the new Liberal leader...Ted Morton won't! So if you want harmony and peace on the federal/provincial front...don't vote for Morton! Just get out your checkbook!
Can you really see Ed going up against Iggy? Or Rae for that matter? They'd eat him for breakfast.

[coppertop]

If the Liberals elect a leader that has a lot of Ontario and Quebec support I am afraid they will form a minority government next time around. Klein tried to stand up to Ottawa more than once, and was shut down,Morton won't have any better chance, as long as Albeta has the booming economy that looks great to Ontario and Quebec !!!

Is Ed tough, perhaps you have forgotten when he publically threatened to fire Murray Smith, our MAN in Washington, if he didn't resign his directorship of a resource company. Murray resigned in short order !!!!

I checked Morton's policy on private health care, he is proposing to allow people to purchase insurance for non emergency services.....pretty scary when you consider what isn't an emergency !!!

His proposal to opt out of the Canada Pension Plan certainly concerns people who are nearing retirement and don't know what will happen to their pension, it certainly would have been helpful to have more concrete information, not just some verbage about opting out.

Ed, on the other hand, proposes an Alberta Pension Plan running in tandem with CPP. He has had some fairly extensive advice on the mechanics of such a plan and I like the thought of young people starting out in the workforce being able to have two sources of pension income, vs one which isn't enough to pay the utility bills for most people !

[cowman]

I'm not so sure Mortons plan was much different than Eds? Basically yes we are opting out of the Canada pension plan...but the feds have a $60 billion dollar pension deficit in ALBERTA! In other words all the money we have sent in CPP payments over the years...really isn't there...and never was! However the federal government would still be obliged to pay that out to people who contributed...unless they wanted the whole rotten pyramid scheme to collapse?...it might anyway...
Now I hope Eds idea of another pension premium isn't a carbon copy of the Canada Pension Plan? Nothing like having two scams going on at the same time!
My old mother gets about three or four pensions: CPP, old age, veterans, and I think the widows pension? Now my father left her in pretty good shape and she has a very good annuity/investment income. She told me the government claws back every penny from her "pensions" and she just wished they would keep it! Nothing more than a bunch of extra paperwork!