county taxes?

[coppertop]

Has your county decided to have an election for Reeve at large this fall ? It was necessary here to get rid of the dirty politics that always surrounded choosing reeve from amongst council members, however, it has certainly added to the cost of council. We have six councillors and an elected reeve. Prior to 2004 we had five councillors.WE have a seven member Ag Service Board which is too many. The costs have jumped sky high because every member attends conventions, summer tours, livestock industry conferences, manure management conferences etc.
When I was on the Board we had a policy of sending a maximum of two members to seminars, and the entire board to conventions and the summer tour. We had a five member board at that time.

Division boundaries were changed by the previous council, but I am hearing rumors that they may be amended again before spring.

[cakadu]

As far as I know they are still moving ahead with bringing the elected reeve to the 2007 election process.

There are still some councillors who don't believe it is a good idea, but they are going ahead with it. There is the one exception noted above and there is absolutely no way he has talked with all of his constituents on the issue, as there has never been a phone call, letter, request, or meeting to raise the issue.

Our ASB went to 3 councillors and 4 members at large, which is 2 more public members than what they had before. As to what they are able to attend, I'm not sure anymore. When I was on, the council members generally went to most things. I happened to raise the point at one meeting and it wasn't met with too much enthusiasm.

[coppertop]

I have no problem with members of any board or committee attending functions where they can network and share ideas, unfortunately some regard conferences as a social outing. I usually attend conferences for specific sessions or speakers.
Unfortunately the Reeve here is very set in his ways, and really isn't open to new ideas, so sending him to everything really isn't a good investment. His hand is always first up whenever there is a conference or seminar to attend. He and all the ASB get paid $320 per day for conference and meeting attendance out of this area, plus all their expenses and mileage, so a four day conference brings in a tidy sum. Again, I have no problem with the amount they are paid as long as the citizens of the municipalty receive some benefit.

[cakadu]

You bring up an interesting point copper. When they attend these conferences, presumably it is to increase their knowledge in order to help the municipality in some way. The councillors come back and may or may not make a report to council on what they have learned. As a rule, the citizens they are supposed to be serving rarely if ever get any report of any sort on what they are getting for their tax dollars.

Before I get jumped on, I am not expecting a 5 page report on what they feel they've learned, but we should be seeing some benefit for the amount spent. If your reeve is not learning anything new, or more to the point, putting it into practice, then what is the benefit in spending the dollars sending him?

I know that there are times when councillors are registered for things and end up being unable to go, but often registration fees are paid in advance - how do we recoup those fees - particularly if there isn't a good reason for missing, or if several of the councillors are no-shows?

[coppertop]

Linda, most Ag Service Board events will refund the registration if there is a valid reason for the delegate not being able to attend.

As far as reporting on what you learn goes, I used to compile a report and have copies availble for the general public at the front desk of the county office . Believe me, and I am not boasting, but I was the only member of council to do so, and likely none have done so since.In the early 90's prior to my being on the ASB, there had been a governance review of the county, and it indicated that all councillors should provide written reports when attending conferences, so I took my cue from that. Whenever there was a seminar coming up that I felt local ag producers would be interested in, I used to call as many as possible and ask them to let others know.

I realize that some people are better at written communicating than others are, but I do feel that taxpayers should get some sort of bang for their buck when it comes to sending their council or boards and committees off to attend functions out of the area.

Planning Commission and SDAB members usually attend at least one seminar per year, and what they learn there should assist them in the decision making process as they perform their duties on the planning commission or appeal board.It would be difficult to write a report that would be meaningful to the general public, but certainly the knowledge obtained would help those wishing to develop.

[cakadu]

I note that you said ASB events. I'm talking about other events where if you don't show, you pay anyway or you find someone else to take your place.

I do believe it particularly important that we hear about what is learned at events that are out of province and/or out of country. Oftentimes those types of excursions are quite costly and a report should be standard procedure.

[cowman]

I believe the elected reeve thing is a done deal...I think they have put the final approval on it but other than that...its done.
Because they dropped one division there will still be the same number of people 6 councillors and a Reeve. They had to do a redistribution anyway as the various populations in different divisions were out of whack? I believe the Reeves job becomes full time and I think they changed it so he will be called the mayor? They had several townhall meetings on this subject to get peoples input? I went to two of them.
The people who bothered to vote clearly indicated they wanted an elected at large reeve. I think it is a good idea to have someone there full time...managing the store...and hopefully keeping the beuracracy from going hogwild!
I do like the idea of citizens at large sitting on various boards? Maybe 4 is too many for the ABS...I don't know, but I think the municipal planning commmission was better when they had citizens on it? I think they made some darned good decisions...that maybe the present board(all councillors) wouldn't have made!

[coppertop]

Cowman the Reeve or Mayor or whatever the title does NOT manage the store !! No elected official has any mangerial or administrative authority within a municipal government. The Reeve's roles are to Chair council meetings and act as the official spokeperson for the county on council or governance matters PERIOD !!

The CAO or CEO of whatever title he or she has is responsible for all administration and delegates responsibility for managing staff in each area to the department heads . The CEO acts on the direction of COUNCIL not the Reeve or Mayor.

All too many councillors feel that they should run the show and get themselves into a lot of trouble micromanaging. In fact the Municipal Government Act is specific on the roles of council, Reeve and CEO.

[cowman]

The fact of the matter is the CAO is the employee of the council. They hire him, they fire him. He answers to them?
It seems to me a firm hand on the CAO is a necessity? Don't forget the real "boss" are the people who own the land in the municipality? The Reeve is their agent to look after their interests.
A full time Reeve will know exactly what is going on? His only "employee" might be the CAO...but he will be in contact with the various department heads...and "office politics" will always give him just about all the information he'll ever need!
Sometimes I wonder how much council knows? For instance how did council NOT know the former CAO was stealing $3.5 million? I am pretty sure if they had been doing their job...someone should have picked up on it?
The whole "elected reeve" idea came up after that little fiasco...and to give him his due, Greg Johnson was the driving force behind that idea. Now if you know Mr. Johnson, you would know he would not be some wallflower taking orders from the CAO! He would be the BOSS...no ifs, ands, or buts!
I find it rather disturbing that our elected officials often play second role or as a supporting cast to the hired help? To blindly go along with every spendthrift scheme the beuracracy comes up with? Lets face it we elect a council to "manage" the business for our interests not the interests of the beuracracy?
Now Mr. Coon is the CAO in Red Deer County and I think he does a pretty good job? But make no mistake, his vision of how things should be might not be how the ratepayers see it?

[coppertop]

Cowman, every municipal elected official is elected by the citizens, however, if they violate the Municipal Government Act they may be censored or removed by the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

No Reeve, elected or otherwise has the power to give orders to, or discipline any staff member, including the CEO. The Reeve's role is to convey council's wishes to the CEO on disciplinary matters. If, in the opinion, of the majority of council, the CEO needs to be corrected in any way, they must make that decision ' in private', then the decision is conveyed to the CEO by the Reeve.

No Reeve, has the legislative authority to give orders to the CEO on their own.

If you doubt my word on this, read the Municipal Government Act, under duties and powers of the Reeve.

No councillor has the power to give direction to staff or the CEO on their own either, and citizens should be well aware of this when electing their council. If any member of council has a problem with a certain staff member, they need to discuss it with council, and the Reeve will take those concerns to the CEO. In some cases, councillors will take a concern to the CEO, who will then follow up on it.

Councillors and the Reeve are elected to set budgets and policy, and ensure that the CEO carries it out.Council is responsible for giving the CEO a performance appraisal annually, and during that process, must clearly set out expectations and goals, plus advise of any concerns.

[cowman]

Coppertop: You know as well as I do that there is the "world according to the rules", and then there is the "real world"?
If the reeve says to the CAO "I think you need to reconsider this."...then he is going to give it some considerable thought?...Like maybe, because if he doesn't...he just might get his fingers slapped when the reeve goes in and talks to the old boys club on council? Come on...you know how politics works?
And you also know a councillor can get a whole lot done, behind the scenes, talking to the staff? If a councillor goes to the Ag fieldman and says hey Range Road 22 needs to be sprayed...he isn't going to tell her/him to go to hell, or take that request over to the CAO? And that happens in every department...now maybe it is different in your county...but it sure works that way around here! If I have a problem with a bad road I don't even phone my councillor first...first I phone the contract co-ordinator, if that doesn't work then I phone the councillor...and I know she gives the operations manager a call! She doesn't ask the CAO!
Now without a doubt...the "rules" say that isn't how it should work...but in fact that is just how it does work!!? If everyone went by the "rules" nothing would get done.

[coppertop]

cowman, I used to get phone calls from 5:30 AM to midnight from citizens complaining, asking for information etc. I would advise the caller of the correct department to contact, and if they requested that I take their concern forward I would do so. Contacting the appropriate department head, advising them of the call, and following that up with a call to the CEO, and I would bring it up at the next council meeting in the public portion of the meeting during councillors reports.

At no time, did I give direction or make suggestions to staff or the CEO. If any direction needed to be given it came out of the council meeting after the issue was discussed by council.

On occaision I would receive complaints about county staff, these would be brought forward during an In Private session at the next council meeting with the CEO present. He took it from there, and would report back to council at the next meeting.

I chaired the ASB and would spend at least an hour a week with the Ag Fieldman discussing matters of the department. The Chairman of the ASB has the same powers as the Reeve in agricultural matters under the ASB Act. If I received any complaints from citizens about agricultural matters, I encouraged them to contact the Fieldman, I also conveyed the complaint to him, and then discussed it with the Board at the next meeting.

Anyone who decides that they do not need to govern by the book, is doing it at their own peril, usually councilors that take matters into their own hands end up not treating every issue with consistency and sooner or later the public is going to be the judge and jury. At the first meeting I attended as a member of council a leader in the resource industry came to the meeting to congratulate us on our victories in the election and he commented that he did not want to see his council running graders or telling the graderman which road to grade, but he did expect his council to set a good direction for the municipality by way of policies etc.

[cowman]

Well I'm glad that worked for you!
My own councillor is very much a "hands on" person and it sure seems to work for her as she has been at it for about twenty years and I guess she'll be in there for as long as she wants!
In this division there are two really good grader men and she goes to bat for them at tender time and makes sure they get the tender...lowest price or not! Why? Because we'd probably shoot her if she ever let these two guys go!
Now she did get herself in hot water once when she was the reeve. She tried to cut a deal on some gravel without following the tender process. It was a sweetheart deal/but no delay was possible...but you see she wasn't following the "rules"? The upshot was she got canned as the reeve, some other slick sucker slid in and bought the gravel! He then turned around and won the tender from the county and sold them the gravel for a $1 million dollar profit!
This is what happens when "rules" over ride common sense? You elect people to do the best job they can, and then punish them for managing like any business would! It just shows how dumb the public sector can be. Just my opinion.

[coppertop]

well, obviously your councillor paid the price for not abiding by the rules didn't she ?

Sometines when you are an elected official following the rules of the game don't make a lick of sense, and many people have gotten themselves into a mess by taking matters into their own hands. In the old days, the county councillors used to tell the graders which road to grade, had authority over which roads received gravel etc.

There are still members of the public that expect their councillor to control things, micro manage etc., but most people just want their councillor to take their concerns to the appropriate department and if they don't get results they expect their councillor to take that issue to the rest of council.

[cowman]

Well I don't know how big a price she really paid. At that time the practice was to alternate the reeve job every year and she only had a couple of months left anyway?
However her stock went right up with just about every ratepayer in the county and I would expect if she chose to run for the new elected reeve position she might just do very well! I don't think she intends to though as she is getting pretty long in the tooth?
There are about 5000 actual ratepayers in the county? If she had been able to buy that gravel it would have saved each one $200? Because of the "rules it cost each ratepayer another $200!
Personally I expect my "politicians" to take care of my problems? Otherwise who needs them? Why not just have the beuracracy run the show and post the "complaint line" in the county paper? I mean we are paying these politicians very good money to take care of our problems and manage the resources of the municipality!
At the end of the day the "boss" has to run the show...not the hired staff? And the "boss" is the ratepayer...through his or her elected representative?
The councillor has to be responsible for what happens in the county. If the staff screws up, it is their job to skid them and hire someone who will get the job done. The buck has to stop somewhere...and that is the council!
I like to believe we have good people working on council and generally they are, but they are also human and can make mistakes?
I truly believe a councillor should be a business person who understands how the real world works? Maybe that is why the city of Red Deer is a gongshow...with social workers and museum curators running the show?
Many people have this belief that there needs to be a turnover every so often in any organization...bring in new blood sort of thing? I am not necessarily a great fan of that idea as who knows what you might be getting? The old tried and proven councillor, who knows how the system works, might be a lot more valuable than some untried person? I know it sure works in my division.