county taxes?

[cakadu]

How do you know it works, cowman, if it has never happened, or at least not in the last 18 years? If one or more councillors are stuck in a particular rut and won't do things to move ahead, then should they be allowed to remain there?

One of my former bosses told me that you can have 25 years experience one year at a time, meaning that you can be there for 25 years but you don't progress beyond that first year. Might be why so many things don't ever seem to change because the same people have been doing the same job for so long.

There are business people that sit on Red Deer City Council and to my knowledge Morris hasn't really been a museum curator - he taught for a good many years though.

Getting in people's faces doesn't necessarily get the job done and may or may not do much for future relations.

[coppertop]

cowman, the only member of county staff that council has the power to 'skid' is the CEO. All other hirings and firings are the responsibility of the CEO and the head of the various departments, so if you expect your council to skid staff that aren't up to your specifications, then you are expecting your council to act in contravention of the Municipal Government Act, which could get them all 'skidded' by the Minister !!!

Council looks after the business of the municipality by setting policy and the budget and hiring a CEO to ensure that the actual work of the county gets done in a fiscally responsible manner.

Bet if you were a councillor you would be out riding in the plow truck !! LOL

[cowman]

coppertop: Are you sure you were ever on council? I don't know what world you are in to think a councillor doesn't have any pull? Whether you go through the CAO or not? Did you think you were there for window dressing? Maybe thats why you aren't there anymore?
Linda: Yep Morris was the museum currator! I know Morris very well...personally...and while he is a nice guy in his own way...I could tell you stories about how he isn't such a nice guy! in fact stories...about how he is a very bad guy! But whatever...what happens in Vegas...stays in Vegas...and that doesn't mean anything perverted or anything like that!
I guess I would ask why change something that works? Do we really need to "explore" the other side? especially when the other side is completely alien to what we believe to be the truth? Why would we elect something that doesn't coincide with anything we believe in? Maybe you could consider that when you contemplate your showing in the last election?

[coppertop]

cowman, there is a vast difference between a councillors powers as an elected official and his or her political clout within council and the community.

Of course, any councillor, good or bad has some sort of pull with the public or they wouldn't have been elected in the first place. Pull and political capital aren't the same as going into a staff members office and giving them orders or giving them hell !!!

I am very sorry if you don't believe I was ever on council or if you wish to question why I am not there...however, as I sit and write this I can see my Oath of Office for Reeve of our county hanging on my office wall.

[cakadu]

Group think can be a very bad thing, cowman, as history can attest to. I suppose it comes down to how you define "what works". If you happen to be amongst the folks that things happen for, then change isn't likely too welcome.

I'm not sure what you mean by "explore the other side" but thinking outside the box never hurt anyone or anything. More and more I am beginning to see the wisdom in Einstein's comment about not being able to solve a problem with the mindset that created it.

Many people become complacent with the status quo and that is okay if that is what you want.

[cowman]

Coppertop: I'm sure you were a reeve and councillor...I was just trying to be sarcastic?
I sometimes think you have a funny way of looking at things and maybe a little bit of an unreal way of how the world works? I'll try to explain why I see that!
Whether we like it or not the world of business works on many levels? There is the "follow the rules" and "super upright" type of system? This is the one everyone gives lip service to and pretends exists?
And then there is the real world, where things get done! And yep, sometimes it isn't pretty and sometimes it corrupts people!
I would suggest there is a lot of the "real world" in politics...maybe more than in business!
There is always the "payoff" the old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" or "one hand washes the other"! Then there is the totally blatant stuff...which isn't illegal...but would have to be considered corrupt? The old payola under the table, influence peddling, insider trading!
It goes on everywhere and is just the cost of doing business.
In a perfect world it wouldn't happen...but this isn't a perfect world...never was really.

[cowman]

Linda: Actually status quo works pretty good for me! In fact most of the "progressive changes" over about the last thirty years, haven't worked for me...but whatever, thats life!
I could name a few: gun registry, official bilingualism, seat belts, universal healthcare, provincial controlled education, Canada pension...well on and on...you should get the drift!

I'm old enough to remember the days when the government basically let you alone and didn't want to always be meddling in your life! Cradle to grave socialism ,and all its government control, doesn't work for me!
Now everyone likes to get a check from the government...but the price you pay is giving up more of your freedom? I'm real big on trying to stay free! I don't do the slave thing very well!
So yes, I want my politicians to not make too many radical changes. I don't want them to blow money on goofy programs...especially ones that put more control on my life! I want them to do as little as possible...and as cheaply as possible! I want them to be good conservative managers of my tax dollars!
So status quo works for me and I don't think change for changes sake is a good idea? Maybe jumping from the pan to the fire?

[coppertop]

Cowman, do you disagree with the legislation requiring babies and small children to be in carseats as well ?
Many changes come about because the public demands them.
For instance, I recently attended an open house held by our planning department with regard to proposed amendments to the Land Use By-Law.One of the proposed amendments deals with landscaping around businesses, industrial sites and residential housing developments.

I felt that the landscaping requirements were too prescriptive and would be impossible to monitor, however, the plan is to take a bond in the total amount of the landscaping costs, and it will be refunded once the landscaping has been completed.

The reason for this amendment is due to public demand. People are tired of looking at unsightly premises and having their own property devalued due to the lack of concern by others for their own properies.

Of course it means more rules, more money out of an individual business owner or developers pocket, but it is what the majority of the public wants.

I agree with legislative changes which will make the air safer, the water we drink safer and our highways safer, these rules are no-brainers.

[cakadu]

I will be the devil's advocate here cowman. If you don't want socialist cradle to grave programs, when the cheques come for payouts for disaster i.e. drought, BSE etc., do you apply for the money and accept the cheque when it arrives or do you send the cheque back and/or not even apply? When you are able to collect CPP are you going to turn it back?

There are some things that have been collosal wastes of money and we can pretty much all agree on them.

I agree with copper in that if we don't protect the air, soil and water we are leaving future generations with little in the way of choice.

[cowman]

Well no I don't agree that kids should be buckled up...if the parent chooses not to?
Golly I don'y know how me and all my sisters ever survived without the government saving us from our evil parents!
Linda: You'd better believe I get my feet in the trough when it comes to BSE payments! I wasn't the idiot who screwed it up and let them feed cow meat to cows!...and incidently I never did!
As far as CPP...just like my mama...it will be all clawed back anyway...so they could save the stamp and keep it!
I guess I'll be contrary and say I'm all for dirty air, polluted water and roler derby on our highways!
Somehow I think I'm pretty well labeled that way, one way or the other!Show me the money! LOL

[coppertop]

Well with all due respect cowman, I dobut that the highways were nearly as busy back in the day when you were a youngster, and did they even have seat belts in those horse and buggies ????

LOL!!!

[cakadu]

Cowman, if you ever bought any "prepared" feeds, you probably fed it inadvertantly. As with many things, we didn't know any better back then. There are a great number of things that we didn't know what was happening or what we were doing. Maya Angelou says something to the effect of "I did what I did until I knew better, then I did better."

I guess for some, it's hard to maintain "principles" when there is a cheque involved. It might not have been your fault that the BSE cow was found, but if I've heard you right over the years, you've advocated taking care of your own and not having handouts. How can there be a difference when a cheque is involved?

[cowman]

Well Linda I guess I paid one hell of a lot more in, than I ever got out! Is it a handout when they pass you back a few cents on the dollar?
Don't think I ever fed anything that was a cow...but how do I know? Used to feed a little bit of 32% supplement but that was urea based?
But it is very true I have no problem getting in the trough with every other hog! The peanuts I might get are nothing compared to what just about every corporation, government contractor, government employee and politician are getting!
My "principles" are get as much as you can! Don't know how you could have misunderstood that?
I remember once my brother in law was giving me the gears about how farmers are so heavily subsidized? He worked for private industry. I told him oh yea what about EI, what about Workers Compensation, what about all those other gov. services for the working man? The fact is we are all on the government tit!
Do I like that? Well no I don't, but the fact is if you don't take advantage of it you will be left in the dust...while still getting the benifit of paying for everyone else!
Do you ever wonder how come it costs so much to run the government? And yet they always seem to be behind? Was it always like that?
I can clearly remember my Dad complaining about what a spendthrift Lester Pearson was...and John Deifenbaker! Why the country owed $18 billion!....And then along came Truedeu!
The fact is this country spends too much money on government. The fact is this province spends to much money on government? Without the oil royalties this province would be in big trouble? We are not living within our means.
And that by the way includes the county! When the day comes that they lose the "oilfield goldmine" we will clearly see this? Or for that matter gasoline alley/business parks?
Think about that. You will see your land taxes triple...or the service drastically reduced?

[coppertop]

cowman, in other posts you have stated that your county is doing a good job, saving money by contracting out road maintenance, etc.

[cakadu]

I do believe you're forgetting cowman, that out in the nether regions of the county, we are already living with reduced services.

I brought up the question earlier - should a rural municipality try to be like it's urban cousin. Totally different requirements and needs, so how is it possible to be the same?

Maybe if everyone who thought we were paying too much stayed away from the trough, we would be paying less?