The Health Care System

[cowman]

Hancock came out recently with the statement that "the Third Way" policy Ralph Klein talked so much about...is a dead duck! No privatization in Alberta!!!
I wonder if this is a good move? BC, Quebec, and even Ontario are moving more and more into the private sector...but not Alberta? I thought we were supposed to be the right wing entrepreneurs of this country? When did we become the biggest lefties in the country?
It was interesting that in yesterdays Red Deer Advocate there was an article about the MLA for Red Deer north...Jablonski? Now this gal is about as red as it gets in the Alberta PC party, but she came out yesterday saying she thinks we need to look at some private solutions!
Now how did she come to this amazing turn around? Well apparently she saw the light after her daughter in law sat in emergency for 3.5 hours, in pain...and never did see a doctor! The quote was...I would have paid $1000 to see a doctor!
Nothing like the real world to get people thinking clearly?

[coppertop]

Yes cowman, I have a daughter in law that is going to undergo major surgery. In December her doctor ordered an EMERCENCY MRI. The earliest date she could get one paid by the health system was June 2. She is having one next week and paying $1000.

Now, that is well and good because she can afford the $1000, but what about those who cannot. Inefficiencies in health care should be ferreted out, and wiped out, then there might be enough of a cash flow to deliver health care within the system.
Jablonski is likely going to try and make as many waves as she can, she didn't support the current leader and she didn't get a cabinet post, so pointing out problems in the health system is her one way to get media !!

[ivbinconned]

Brian Day: Health Care Protestant

Michael A. Platonov

"When will we get a bed upstairs?" This is, universally, the final question posed by newly admitted patients in an Emergency Department. As a response, I have perfected a combination wince/shrug pantomime coupled with some mutterings about housekeeping services readying any available space, if there is one. I leave out the part about expecting to wait up to three days. Four years of medical school plus six years of residency can teach a man a lot of things, but survival skills tend to be first and foremost: double your caloric intake when on call overnight, make the surgeon see their sick patient first, avoid the ER when a new shift starts and so on.

The greatest skill of all, however, was learning to live with oneself while immersed in the religion that is Health Care. Too grandiose a statement? Consider such terms as the five sacred pillars of the Health Care Act, patron saint Tommy Douglas (with his CBC hagiography), and the anathema of alternative delivery methods. As an acolyte in a Heath Care temple, (i.e. a hospital), one has to live with oneself while paying lip-service to the mantra of single payer health. To do otherwise risks being labelled "pro-American" or something similarly damning. But it didn't begin there. Our medical school ethics class made it quite clear that questioning health care delivery would result in a verbal run-in with the professor. Upper classmen warned us that failing to toe the party line would result in lower essay scores. Pragmatism, I am not proud to admit, won the day. As hospital work began, the failings of the system became obvious. Complaints were prevalent. I learned that you could safely complain about the hospital administration in their plush boardrooms. You could find takers for any diatribe against the provincial government in its ivory tower. The pharmaceutical industry was a ready target with their expensive drugs. But God forbid you mention the system. The system was conceptually infallible.

The rebuttals came, typically, in three stages. First, that the system simply needed more money. Every year, more money. Once it was pointed out that we were already on track to have just two government ministries, (Revenue and Health), the fallback position contained rich themes of social justice. Without a government monopoly, the refrain echoed, costs would rise, efficiency would fall and the poor would be abandoned. Finally, when the uncontroversial, efficient European model of provision was cited, it was suggested that the best physicians would migrate to private health and thereby cripple public health forever. This always struck me as an inadvertent condemnation of public health care by those who sought to defend it. Counterproductively, those who defend the system want to work within it, advance through its ranks and ultimately control it. Nothing changes. Those who believe in true health care reform must have strong stomachs to immerse themselves in the bureaucracy they detest in order to foment change.

This is why the election of Dr. Brian Day as president of the Canadian Medical Association was such a remarkable event. In case you missed it, Dr. Day runs a privately funded orthopaedics practice in Vancouver. Dr. Day seems to believe, like Senator Michael Kirby before him, that a thoughtful approach stripped of religious overtones must be applied to the endless crisis that is health care in this country.

The very fact that he might become CMA president led to the application of the "Dr. Profit" moniker, unorthodox requests for repeat elections, and general teeth gnashing. Refreshingly, saner heads prevailed. For the sake of the patients waiting in Emergency as you read this, lets hope that trend continues.

WESTERN Standard

[JD4ME]

Well as soon as I can come up with the 5000 dollar or even 500 dollar fee I will ask the premier. We seem to have private politician financial care in Alberta 5000 would buy me 5 MRI's whats wrong with a little private me care.

[coppertop]

JD4ME, you may not have heard that the Premier put a stop to the $5000 dinner, thankfully. I don't know whose idea it was but it was about the stupidest idea I have ever heard.
As far as the $500 dinner goes, that is nothing different that many parties do, including our federal conservatives. There has been Premier's dinners in this province for years, so its nothing new. Klein was hosted at a $150 a plate dinner in our little community last fall, the money went for charity.

[wilagro]

cowman:We have enough private health care now, we don't need more. I remember my dad spending money needed for clothes and food when my mother needed an operation years back, It was tough, but he didn't hesitate. We had a huge store bill as a result of the health emergency but somehow he paid it off. How the local merchants carried people through rough times is beyond me. Not all people were as honest as my dad though and some merchants got stuck for thousands of dollars down the tube.

I would hate to see the OLD times return...our present health care system needs some tweaking not radical surgery as your MLA suggests.

[cowman]

wilagro: Tweaking really won't work? It really won't.
The fact is our healthcare system is completely out of control. It needs to be brought into some sort of balance? And I'm sorry if this offends...but the Stelmach plan of "studying the problem"...just won't solve it?
It really won't?
We need new solutions...not the same old, same old?
Ralph Klein may have been foolish on several things...but he understood this? He asked Albertans several times...what can we do? Did he get an answer...other than silly rhetoric from the raging grannies and friends of medicare?
Whether you like it or not, sooner rather than later we are going to have to deal with this problem?
Mr. Stelmach has chosen to "play the game" and drivel around? A smart short term solution...but it does not address the problem? And eventually that is going to come back and bite Ed in the ass...well if he survives the next election?
All Canadians need to deal with this problem? It truly is not sustainable...no matter how much of Albertas oil wealth is ripped off.

[cowman]

wilagro: Tweaking really won't work? It really won't.
The fact is our healthcare system is completely out of control. It needs to be brought into some sort of balance? And I'm sorry if this offends...but the Stelmach plan of "studying the problem"...just won't solve it?
It really won't?
We need new solutions...not the same old, same old?
Ralph Klein may have been foolish on several things...but he understood this? He asked Albertans several times...what can we do? Did he get an answer...other than silly rhetoric from the raging grannies and friends of medicare?
Whether you like it or not, sooner rather than later we are going to have to deal with this problem?
Mr. Stelmach has chosen to "play the game" and drivel around? A smart short term solution...but it does not address the problem? And eventually that is going to come back and bite Ed in the ass...well if he survives the next election?
All Canadians need to deal with this problem? It truly is not sustainable...no matter how much of Albertas oil wealth is ripped off.

[Horse]

Cowman I do believe you are a politicion along with coppertop. You both seem to think the healthcare system is unsustanable monateraly but beeing able to buy yourself in front of everyone else is somehow cheaper I realy dont understand how is it more efficant to pay a DR directly and if the DR has the time to see you how is it that he cant see more patients whithout the extra cash?
As for Ralph what did he ever propose I must have been out of the room when he made an anouncment about what he was proposing ,his lap puppy rutherford said lots and it was all the same I GOT MORE MONEY THAN YOU SO GET TO HELL OUT OF THE ROAD IM # 1 .
If ED wants to study the problem and wants input lets all get a look at just where the money is going, just how can anyone make a informed dicision if they dont have the real figures to work with, lets break it down to regions and then individual hospitals and clinics or even DRs only then will we see the real picture.

[coppertop]

horse please explain what you just said, with respect to any comments I have made. I think there is a lot of waste in the health care system, and have said that numerous times.
I have also said I do not agree with anyone being able to buy health services at the expense of those who cannot afford to.

[cowman]

I assure you Horse...I am not a politician...and have no desire to be one!
I don't know...does it concern you that we spend $11 billion plus a year on healthcare...out of a $27 billion budget? And that it is the fastest growing public expense in the province?
Now maybe old Ed is going to uncover billions in savings...but I doubt it? Do you think Klein and company never looked for savings...of which Ed and his new cabinet were all members of?
Unless you don't know it, there already is "two tiered" medicare? Its real easy. If you have the money you go to the States, pay the bill, and save your life...if you don't...you stay with Canada healthcare and die!
Not pretty, but very true!
I don't know exactly what the Klein plan was? He never revealed it! Everytime he suggested any solution the howl went up about "Americanization"! I would suspect the "Third Way" was a combination of privatization of service delivery, consolidation, limited medical insurance?
There are solutions out there. Many countries in the world have better systems than ours, at a much lower cost?
Mr. Stelmach is no dummie...he proved that by getting elected? And he's playing smart politics with this proposal to check everything out? And who knows...maybe he's sincere? It is just my opinion that the system needs a radical overhaul...I might be totally wrong! I guess we'll see how his plan works down the road?

[coppertop]

cowman, all throughout Ed's campaign he assured Albertans that he intended to look for efficiencies in the health care system, this isn't something he has decided to do since he became leader. He has heard all along, from doctors, nurses etc. that there is a lot of room for costs savings,so he intends on getting them in the same room with health region representatives to discuss where there can be dollars found.

[cowman]

Well I hope there is a lot of savings to be found? Hopefully enough to offset the 13% increase in health costs in the last year? And hopefully the 13%(or more) this year?
It would be nice to hear that "all is solved and Utopia is again within our grasp"...but I doubt it!
Ralph Klein had close to 16 years to make a dent in it and failed miserably? I hope his boy can.

[coppertop]

I don't ever recall Ralph asking to have a complete accounting of where the dollars were going in health care, he tried to change things but of course the opposition, Raging Grannies and medical unions scared the hell out of people and he backed down. Ed has heard from many people that there is a more efficient way to deliver health care. He had some very highly regarded health professionals working with his leadership team, and I am sure they gave him some good advice.

[Horse]

Cowman you still didnt explain how it is cheaper to go private I realize it is faster if you can pay but WHY that is the question?
Coppertop I cant put a finger on how it is you have a way of saying things like in political talk just as I cant talk Rap but I can get the message but you obvisoly promote the Tory machine so I guess I am assuming that you know the secret of healthcare. I realy do wish you or someone else would explain to the masses.
Mabey we are paying bonuses to all the admin to the tune of other corp in the mills of $ or mabey it is good to keep us wanting so the gov or health regions have a purpose in life ,All I know is that we have had a very stagnant bunch running the show and it is about time to at least present a discusion for a solution.