The Health Care System

[coppertop]

horse, every year there are renovations to our local health care centre. NOT for the addition of new beds in long term care where they are desparately needed, but for additional offices for more administration. I have worked in the municipal system and know that administration can become very top heavy if allowed to do so. Each administrator needs admin support people and so on and so on...these dollars could be better utilized to provide beds, MRI machines and technical staff etc....That is why I support any initiative to find extra dollars and trim the fat in health care.

[cakadu]

There are many reasons for the huge increase in health costs - and many other costs for that matter. We can't have the influx of people coming into this province without straining the already existing services, infrastructure etc.

In many instances, the money never gets to where it is needed the most, it gets caught up in bureaucratic layers. I've never been able to understand why all these senior people need so many to help them. One of the biggest brainscratchers in my opinion is in the school system with all the associate superintendents, assistant superintendants and as copper says, they need assistants etc. and all of a sudden there is a little empire.

When we went to the health regions, it seems to me that the costs skyrocketed and it wasn't to put staff or equipment, beds etc. in the hospital.

Even the municipalities are not immune to this - my own county is going to be hiring more people this year. They also voted for a 4% cost of living allowance for everyone this year. Do we need more staff at the County - I don't know, but it seems as though it just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

You've mentioned the 27 billion in budgeted spending cowman, but what about all the unbudgeted items this year? Was that really necessary spending? I'm a little more worried about that than some of the other budgeted items.

I most certainly agree that we need to take some responsibility for our lives i.e. smoking, drinking, overeating etc., but there are many instances where people need health care services due to no fault of their own i.e. a car accident.

I also agree with copper in that those without the means to pay for services should not be shunted to the side because there are those that can pay.

[coppertop]

Linda, a 4% cost of living increase is standard this year among municipalities. They, too, are trying to retain staff, and the ones that will leave are the good ones, not the marginal employees.

Increase in population, better technologies, more refined testing etc., have all driven up the cost of health care.

I can't really comment on the school system because I was never on a school board, and haven't had kids in the system for years. I do know that in our area a nearly new school was closed two years ago and is now on the market for less than a third of market value. These are your tax dollars and mine that are going down the drain...

I had an appointment this morning with my family doctor, to get one prescription renewed. His office was full of very sick people, and he was running late. He had a lunch appointment, and I was his last patient before lunch....he asked me what I wanted, I told him, he made a note and phoned the pharmacy to give them the go ahead to repeat the prescription. I walked out very thankfull that I was not among the very ill people there, and also with a resolve to keep myself as healthy as possible !!!

[cowman]

Linda:Of course you are right, we are experiencing a lot of population growth and that adds enormously to costs? And unfortunately the federal government doesn't let the money follow the population through Transfer payments?
I hear you on the county thing. Not sure if the county is hiring more people...haven't heard that? I wonder where they will put them as the County office is bursting at the seams! Might have to add on? LOL
I don't think a 4% increase is out of line? I know drilling consultants who got up to a 25% increase! I believe Alberta Highways employees(County contractor) got 15.7% over three years? I doubt 4% covers the cost of inflation after the government gets done screwing you over?
But I do agree the growth in the beuracracy at the municipality has to be a concern? When they privatized in 1999 37 people went down the road. They have replaced those 37, and added a dozen more, and they are all paper pushers!
Privatization works well if you use it properly...not so well if your use the extra money to create "little empires" of office staff!
Apparently we are going to see "no tax increase for most of the people"? Read that as the people living out in the boonies in a very modest home! The fact is with the amount of money rolling in from the oil and gas, the county should be lowering taxes! But then fighting the war with Red Deer is extremely expensive...as most wars are!

[coppertop]

your property assessment will dictate your tax increase, plus any additional mill rate the county decides to implement. The closer you are to the highway corridor, the city or recreation areas the more your assessment has likely gone up.

[ivbinconned]

I wonder about the truth in assuming that population growth equals higher health costs for Alberta.
Alberta's influx of people is of younger workers who are not as demanding of health care $$...yet, and are of the crowd that is contributing a large portion of their wages in taxes.
If higher costs could be blamed on newcomers to Alberta then then we should expect health care cost to decline in provinces with shrinking
populations. Such is not the case!!

[coppertop]

younger certainly doesn't equate to living a healthy lifestyle !!!
Not too many seniors snorting coke or whipping up batches of meth in their basements !!!

Many of our health dollars are going to preventative programs, like, smoking is bad for you, don't drink and drive, say no to drugs, and use proper car seats etc. All these things are common sense and our health dollars should not have to be spent to educatate the population on how to look after their own welfare.

[ivbinconned]

"snorting coke or whipping up batches of meth in their basements" !!!

Oh my. You certainly do have a dark side.

You are painting with a discriminitory, anti-youth, anti-newcomer, wide brush copper!!!

Hope you are not including MY kids, who are productive tax paying, new commers to your province. Come to think of it, all of their freinds are too!!

[coppertop]

and so are mine, but there is an element in our province as elsewhere that costs an awful lot to the health care system and society by the lifestyle they choose. You made reference to the fact that the younger working people aren't necessarily the ones that utilize the health care system as much, and I beg to differ.

There is a lot of abuse of the health care system, and there are people who abuse their own health, then they become high users of the system. Now, I don't think that these folks should be shown the door when they need medical attention, but its a fact that many who use alcohol and drugs to excess also require various kinds of health care. Most of these folks aren't old, they are younger, working age individuals. The cost to society is a lot more than health dollars, an that is a fact that is well documented.

Seniors have long been targeted as a drain on health care dollars, and again I don't agree. Certainly those who require long term or continuing care are users of the system, but there are many seniors living healthy lifestyles and keeping themselves fit etc.Many of these folks lived through times when there were no hospitals or doctors close by, if they could afford them, and as far as I am concerned whatever they cost the health system they have paid their dues.

Those of us who are blessed with good health, are fortunate, and can certainly thank our lucky stars, the Man upstairs etc.

[cakadu]

I should say that some of these "old folks" are in pretty good health and shape. Have you ever watched some of them at dances? They are amazing to watch and I applaud them on their stamina and ability.

We have a serious crystal meth problem in this province and when I hear things about it, I have to say that I am continually shocked by what I hear. We also have a certain percentage of people who run to emergency rooms for every hangnail, sniffle (includes their kids)and spot on them. That is a huge drain on the system.

There are many more "toys" to be riding on like quads, motor bikes and have you ever taken a look at the people flying by you on the highway? They are generally young and feeling invincible (like we all did). There is an aura of work hard, play hard out there and that causes a lot of injuries and health problems that might not otherwise be there.

We are able to "fix" things and keep people alive sometimes questionably - just because we can, should we? (I'm not passing any judgment, just asking the question.)

We are doing far more elective surgeries in the hope of living up to some ideal younger and fitter image.

There are a host of reasons why health care keeps going up and it will require an overhaul, there is no doubt. The overhaul, however, should not come at the expense of those that do not have the means to pay.

[coppertop]

It is getting more difficult all the time to get in to see a doctor, and for those moving to the province that don't have a family doctor it poses a problem. At one time we had so many doctors in this community the hospital board had to enlarge the doctors parking area at the hospital twice.

Now we have fewer doctors and only a handful have hospital privleges.

A friend told me today that her son needs an MRI, he was told that one hospital in Edmonton can do 30 a day, but only do 3, because the rest of the time is saved for emergencies. He is paying $1000 and getting one done next week, my daughter in law has already paid her $1000 and has one on Wednesday. It makes me livid when I think of people who are in pain, need surgery and don't have the $1000 to pay. This is Alberta, the land of plenty, and we should have these machines in ever major centre, going 24 hours a day if need be. No-one should wait for months because they can't afford to pay for any treatment taht is going to pave the way for a better quality of life.

[cowman]

And the solution is?
How do we curb the price if the system needs so much more?
Do we find all the inefficiencies and then spend some more to bring it up to snuff?
A free medicare system is not really free?...especially if it kills you!
We try to legislate healthy living by the anti-smoking thing, anti-booze, anti-fat,etc.? How is that working?
Would it make more sense that if you are fat, a drunk, a smoker, a risky behavior taker...your health care premiums might reflect that? Nothing like a hit on the old pocketbook to create some personal responsibility?
I will make a prediction: Healthcare costs will not go down. They will continue to rise until personal responsibility is brought into the equation!
My mother is old. Her health is fading. We recently put her in a home at a cost of over $3000/month. It is a top of the line facility...we don't resent the cost, she deserves it and it is her money! It comes to us all sooner or later? Now if she didn't have the money she might go somewhere that isn't that nice, but where she would still get basic care? Our whole system should be built on the concept that those who succeed should benifit?
This garbage that we are all equal...is just that garbage! Work hard...live well! Don't work hard...live poorer!
We had a neighbor who was kind of a shiftless type. When he hit 65 he got all the benifits of the welfare state. I remember my Dad fuming how the government clawed back his pension benifits and veterans pension while old Sam lived the life of Riley! He said "While he was sitting in the beer parlor I was picking rocks and cutting brush...half of the time on crutches! Now I'm still picking rocks and cutting brush to keep him in the beer parlor! Theres something really wrong in this damned country"!
And before anyone thinks I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, let me tell you I worked darned hard for every dollar I got. I was not "to the manor born" I worked on pipelines, rigs, and a packing house to build my life and raise my family! I bought the majority of my mothers farm...although it was a sweetheart deal. I worked hard and hustled to make ends meet and I continue to work everyday to insure my family will be secure. I'm not some paragon of virtue...there are millions of Canadians who do the same! Work hard, use common sense, use the gifts God gave you, and you will succeed. This whole concept that the government is there to wipe your nose and take care of you is not good. Just my opinion.

[ivbinconned]

Copper, you seem to think you have all the answers and have got a handle on the issue, you have always got a come back, yet you ignor this comment of mine..."If higher costs could be blamed on newcomers to Alberta then then we should expect health care cost to decline in provinces with shrinking
populations. Such is not the case!!"

You also describe the shortage of docters, waiting times, etc. BUT those problems are just as bad if not worse in Saskatchewan!! With a declining population!! Please expand will you on how you can blame these issues on newcomers and the young???

Please don't express your opinion, just stick to the facts.

[coppertop]

Ivebin, you state your opinion many times on this site, as I do. I get the feeling that you seem to think you are the godfather of this site, with all the answers.

Anyone can cut and paste....

[coppertop]

cowman, for years there has been choices in seniors living accommodation. Private nursing homes have been around, as have life estates in facilities that provide the opportunity to age in place. The lower income seniors are looked after in the lodge program in Alberta, which is one of the only ones of its kind in Canada.

And before Ivebin gets his nickers in a knot thinking I am stating my opinion on that issue, I will advise that I chaired our local Seniors Foundation for years, and worked with the province on many issues, such as the priority point scoring program that is in place to ensure that seniors who are the most in need can be housed in seniors lodges that are subsidized by the province and the municipal taxpayer.
The Seniors Self contained housing is heavily subsidized, but each senior living in this accommodation pays 30% of their income, so, as you say cowman, those who have worked hard, saved their money and have more cash in their senior years,will pay more than those who don't, and this is for identical accommodation. It hardly seems fair, but that's the way it is.
I would suggest that at least 75% of the above lodges have waiting lists.

I still think that the health care system was running fairly smoothly before we had the Health Regions. Now there are huge bureaucracies throughout the province, and ever dollar it takes to keep them in operation are dollars taken away from the actual delivery of health care.

User fees have been considered, and people get up in arms, but there are user fees at most medical clinics in the province at this time, for some services.

Many people have access to excellent health benefits through their workplace, while others, like farmers, do not unless they pay huge premiums.

I won't commment on health care in other provinces because I am not qualified to do so, I do know that Alberta has state of the art hospitals, cancer clinics, childrens hospitals etc., that have been possible due to the fact that this province has the funds to build them, whether other provinces such as Saskatchewan have similar facilities isn't something I am aware of.