CWB slow to pay...farmers and CEO

[wilagro]

FarmRanger: The AB Gov't website has "carefully" selected data on it.

IMO the site is pure propaganda.

[Burbert]

cowdog, You are right about the demise of the CWB, that has been the agenda from the get go. No doubt about it. I like the way you called it on the vote, I was wavering thinking that we can have it both ways, but you are right, it won't work. I think that if we leave this decision to any government the board is doomed. We the farmers, FOR ONCE must stand up on this one and be counted not afraid of our own shadows, and not be willing to sellout to corporate American interests. My 2 cents worth... We built it, lets continue to support and run it.

[FarmRanger]

Wilagro, I think there might be some propaganda on both sides then? I know one thing that’s not propaganda, there is no malt premium in southern Alberta right now. More like a 20 cent discount. My barley which could have malted is going feed. I just can’t justify selling it to the CWB for less, so isn’t that sort of a dual market right now? It does annoy me a little that good malt barley has to go for feed, but I prefer that my charitable donations go elsewhere (if I have the choice).

Why does an open market have to be the demise of the wheat board? If I enter a legally binding contract with the CWB, I’d be obligated to deliver to them. Those who don’t sign on wouldn’t be eligible to pool their grain and could sell on the open market. Why does this whole thing have to be so divisive?

[cowdog]

FarmRanger, there is no way for us farmers to have our cake and eat it too. We either have the CWB involved in barley or we do not. Dual marketing is not an option. The CWB will not compete for the same stocks of grain with the trans-nationals, its advantage and thus ours in its having a monopoly.
Cash advances on non-board grains cost us more, don’t advance as much, and are harder to get, have many more conditions applied, and demand that you jump through a lot more hops to get them. To date I have only seen them available for high demand crops like canola that tend to move quickly or products of limited production and high value. The rules for the repayment of these are pretty well fixed in stone, unlike CWB advances that have allowed occasional flexibility when marketing and delivery problems have occurred.
Another reality was recently brought forward to me; the CWB currently controls the freight rates by creating a lowest bidder situation. Without this, freight to the coast will move to a highest bidder situation were the railways dictate the rates.
The current wave of high prices will not last; it is simply the result of world shortages of feed grain as you know. When it bursts the advantages single desk selling will assert themselves particularly in the malt market.
There is an advantage for Chuck and the Boys that you may not have realized in getting rid of the CWB Advances; it free up huge sums of cash guaranteeing them, offering the possibility of more tax cuts for their rich friends

[FarmRanger]

The CWB monopoly is only as a buyer though? They don’t have to compete as a buyer from farmers, but they sell into an international market where they are not the only seller. It’s a monopoly buyer with no financial accountability to the farmers selling to them.

On the selling side I can see the advantages of a bigger seller, they should be able to negotiate a higher price. In a dual market they should still be a large seller. Sure they’d lose some farmers, but there should still be large volumes to offer.

All BS aside, it looks to me like:
1. The CWB would be a smaller international seller, how much smaller would depend on how many farmers signed up for pooling. Might be some loss of market power?
2. The CWB would no longer be a monopoly buyer of barley for export. I’m not sure how that one would be bad for farmers?

[cowman]

Cowdog: One thing I might point out? You said the "world prices" for feed grains are caused by shortages elsewhere? I agree that is partly true...this year?
If this "biofuel" thing is the real meal deal, you won't need to worry about export markets...because we will need every available bushel to fill the market right here! That is just a fact? Little Stephane will be upping the rate as soon as he gets in?
If 25% of all fuel needs were met in the USA, by biofuel,....there would be nothing left for food production!
We are on the edge of a revolution in agriculture? The days when we(the farmer) are dependent on food production are rapidly coming to an end? The CWB has no role to play in this new world! Just my opinion.

[cowdog]

What I said was, "The current wave of high prices will not last; it is simply the result of world shortages of feed grain". I did not offer any reasons for this in this thread, but I would tend to be of the opinion that that world wide reduced stocks and yields and the dought in Australia would be far more relavent to the current feed grain prices than the enthanol industry in the US. And by the way barley is of no value to produce bio-feul ethanol, wheat or corn are what will be used. Corn does drive all feed grain values but, the demand on it by the ethanol industry will not occur to after 2009 when the new preposed plants are suppose to be finished. You are entitaled to your narrow world view, greed and selfish attitude, but the last time I checked the majority don't share them.

[cowman]

AHA! Another idealogue! Save the world for all the downtrodden!
I don't think you are up on some of the research on barley production for ethanol. Check with Agrium.(Evil Cargill)
The fact is the biofuel industry is going to change how we do agriculture and you can either go with the flow or get stuck in the mud! Remember we have a "legislated blend"?
You may not realize it but "greed and selfish" are what built this country? Its called capitalism?

[cowdog]

Cowman, what I am referring to is ethics not ideology. I am far more interested in not becoming one of the down trodden than saving the world for them. I’ll bet that you are an easy mark for conmen, because that’s what making ethanol from barley is. The amount of ethanol that can be obtained grain is directly related to the amount of sugars in the grain. The more alcohol in proportion to the water extracted from the mash the less natural gas needed to remove it from the water, thus the less input costs. That is why corn and high starch wheat are in demand for ethanol production. Using barley becomes more economic only at about $1.20/bus, Does Cargill no something about getting rid of the CWB you don’t?
I live in Canada; my country was not built on greed and capitalism, it was built on Cooperation and Compromise; .take a course in Canadian History. If you want to live in the land of greed, selfishness and capitalism move south.

[cowman]

Well time will tell on the barley thing? I see a plant is proposed in Manitoba that will use 70% barley/30% peas...I guess you should phone them up and educate them?
The fact is there are options? Anywhere barley is grown, CPS wheat can be grown? Not sure if it is high starch or not but probably easily obtained by genetic engineering. I'll go out on a limb and say a lot of barley acres are going to be very yellow this year? You might think it is unethical to grow crops for the energy sector...and hey that is your right! Keep targetting those Algerians and Morrocco boys!
I think maybe you need to study some Canadian history? Study the CPR. Study the big banks. Study Bay Street. Ethical players...I don't think so.

[cowdog]

Once again I find myself having to correct you:
1] The plant proposed for Manitoba is to produce isobutenol not ethanol; the process used has never been commercialized before, making it an unproven technology. Isobutenol does show some promise as a bio-fuel over ethanol because you do not require more energy inputs than you get back like ethanol from grains.
2] At no time have I ever said it is unethical to turn food grains into fuel; the problems of global under nourishment are the result of shortages but, instead the unequal distribution of food. If it was a problem of shortages then the CWB would be selling our wheat for $16/ bus. And no one would be trying to dismantle it by deception.
3] While you are taken your history lesson, take one on effective reading. The ethics I wrote of are the ethics you should have acquired from your mama, you know things like looking out for your neighbour, saving something for the future, protecting the next generation and if you can’t make the world a better place at least don’t make it worse. I guess you might also refer to these as morals. Many of your posts demonstrate a lack of these.
4] Have you ever grown wheat? What lowers the grade of wheat to feed in many instances is starching, the same thing that makes it valuable for ethanol. Bio-engineering, I am surprised that you can even spell it let alone understand it. A more effective way to increase starch in wheat would be by plant breeding, some of this is already taking place in the US and in Europe.
5] I actually welcome the Bio-fuel industry but, let them have to compete with our farmer controlled monopoly the CWB on the world markets. That will insure that we farmer’s get the highest possible returns for our crops.
Lastly to quote DON BESTER a well known advocate for landowner’s rights “THE FUTURE OF ENERGY PRODUCTION IN ALBERTA RESTS NOT ON WHAT LIES BENEATH THE LAND BUT, ON WHAT GROWS UPON IT”