pilot project for cbm?

[cowman]

Grassfarmer: He said that at this CBM pilot project meeting also...or I think he did? He definitely stated that there had never been a water well affected by shot holes for seismic! I think he said 52 million shot holes had been drilled.
I understand all the concerns and issues farmers son has raised...but bottom line...these are the rules and government we have to work with? Mr. Stelmach has about the most rural cabinet I can remember? If they don't change the system...then who will?
In my own mind CBM doesn't scare me. I have become convinced it is a good thing? Now I may be prejudiced because I am going to benifit in a big way...but I feel it is going to be all right? Just my opinion.

[cakadu]

What's that old song...."pave paradise and put up a parking lot". It may seem like a good thing in the short term, but is there any consideration at all for the long term? Future generations will be paying for the decisions we make now and they have no say.

We never appreciate what we have until it's gone. All the money in the world will not bring back potable water.

[grassfarmer]

The website that HCL records water well records on is worth a look. www.groundwatercentre.com You fill in the boxes for a password then can access records from across the province by legal land description. My area is full of mistakes, wells listed on my land that are actually a mile to the east or west etc on someone elses property. I hope their aquifer tests are more accurate.

[farmers_son]

I have had the misfortune to know first hand that seismic can ruin water wells. Last summer, the day after seismic shot their dynamite near our farm our only water well had no water. Of course the seismic company disavowed any responsibility and basically told me to take a hike. It is impossible to prove they ruined my well but it is quite a coincidence that a good well is no good the day after the seismic is shot.

It looks like it will cost upwards of $40,000 to replace that well with the costs of multiple dry holes and we have not been able to find another source of water nearly as good as we had. We will likely end up using dugout water for part of our watering needs as the subsurface water just does not seem to be there anymore.

Water is very important.

[cowman]

grassfarmer: A farmers consultant (Don Bester) brought up the fact that the ground water study showed a 150 ft. water depth difference from land in one county...right across the road in another county. The hydrologist said "Well I didn't do the other county!"
Linda: Did you know on numerous occasions your Reeve has said we should pave the whole darned county! Tongue in cheek of course?
farmers son: I take it you are not a believer in the water witch? Very few wells have been drilled in my area where the landowner hasn't brought in the witch! Is it all BS? I don't know however I've had four wells drilled that were witched and all were pretty well exactly where he said they were and produced what he said they would!
Had one well 220 feet that was never a good well...low producer always caving in. The witch did his thing and 60 feet from that well brought in a 50 gal/min at 60 feet! Well worth the $150 fee. My hog farmer neighbor had a 550 ft well that was getting so gassy when the hotsy came on in the hog barn it blew the door off! The witch got him a 50 gal/min well at 110 ft...about 12 feet from the old well!

[farmers_son]

My son and I witched two spots ourselves, both were dry holes. Contacted a local water witcher who found wells for people all over the province. Got one dry hole and one deep well under 2 GPM. A well driller recommended another witcher or deviner who came in and found two spots, another dry hole but one well which has water but the static level is very slow to come up after being pumped. It looks to us like the aquifer for that well recharges very slowly, possibly under 1/4 GPM.

I did talk to a fellow who finds water for intensive livestock operations. He uses aerial photos, topographical maps and existing water well data to try to find good wells. He charged $4000 whether he found water or not which was quite a bit for our small pocket book. We decided what with that and the cost of more dry holes it was cheaper to develop the dugout where we knew there was water. We will use the water well for the house and the dugout to supply the livestock waterers. The old well did everything for us and was a good well. One day it was there and the next day it was gone.

Trying to find water underground is a difficult process if the water is no longer there. It really was like going to Vegas and playing the tables at $3000 a bet. If the seismic company had been onside and helping to foot the bill we could have tried more holes. But as we had to stand the cost ourselves after a while you just have to stop looking.

I hate to say it but farmers in certain areas of the province might have to consider that within a generation groundwater may be a thing of the past. If the energy development, especially CBM and the seismic activity continues unabated significant areas of the province will loose their groundwater aquifers. For the energy industry groundwater is a niusance.

[grassfarmer]

Water protection in this province is a joke. I got a letter today from the Minister of Environment assuring us that they want to see reduced use of fresh water injection leading eventually to none at all "in the drier areas" of the province. He stated that only if there is no alternative will companies be allowed to use fresh water. I would suggest that in every case there is an alternative - leave the oil where it is until new recovery methods are discovered - the oil isn't going anywhere. At the same time Alberta Environment handles the license procedure and the guy for our area stated that he has never turned down an application to use fresh water for oilfield flooding. He considers each case on it's merits and will only take seriously objections from people within a 5 mile or less radius. We have to prove that the project would damage the water supply or environment. How do you do that against hydrogeological company's (paid by the oil industry) figures?

[cowdog]

cowman, I would apreciate that when you quote someone such Don Bester you should have at least payed enough attention as to be accurate. What said was that by simply crossing the fence from the county of Red Deer to the Kneehill County there was a 250 metre difference in the BASE OF GROUND WATER PROTECTION according to the hydrological studies done by HCL and its subsidairy MoTech. Did you also miss that the when asked the local EUB project manager did not know where the industry got the base of ground protection from, and had to ask industry for that imformation, that did not speak well for the compitence of the EUB.

[grassfarmer]

Presumably these people that leave agriculture or their kids will want to live somewhere on earth, probably not far from where they grew up? As such they will be affected by pollution, lack of drinkable water. This #@$hole attitude that we can take the big money now without paying for the consequences later is all too prevalent in todays society.

[coppertop]

Grassfarmer, I tend to agree with you on this one, we all need to be concerned about this old planet. I feel the same way about those that think agricultural lands should be subdivided into small parcels, not caring one bit about where food will be produced thirty or forty years from now. cowman is correct in saying that many farms as they know them will end with the current generation, and many of those farmers are in the position where they can make a lot more money subdividing than by farming.

Water is a precious commodity as is the air we breathe, and we all need to do our part to preserve these things for future generations. cowman, I really do think you care about the environment even if you sound like a onery old cuss !!!

[cakadu]

That is all well and good to take that attitude cowman, but you are making the decision for everyone who comes after you. I also believe that the ballpark figures you are throwing out there are just that - ball park and perhaps a wee bit on the high side.

One thing that has to be remembered is that once the ecosystem is altered, it is changed forever and we won't be able to get it back. In addition, the ecological goods and services that are provided by the land, air, water etc. will NEVER be recovered either.

We are NOT the owners of the natural resources and they are not ours to do with as we (greedily) want to. We are but custodians for future generations.

Too bad that by the time someone figures out what we have done, we won't be around to answer for it.

[cowman]

I often wonder how come one person has an excellent relationship with the oil company while for others, they are the most evil thing alive? Maybe the same thing could be said about international corporations?
Call me an idiot or something but when someone comes knocking on my door with his checkbook in his hand...I invite him right in!
They drilled the first oil well here in 1956 and the water still flows and the grass still grows! My old Dad raised 7 kids and that old lease/royalty check always came in handy!
I personally don't think CBM is going to hurt my water one iota? We've always had gassy water here, long before an oil well was ever drilled.
Maybe my problem is I've never hated the big corporations? I've always found they put money in my pocket and usually were a lot better to deal with than a small operator!
I guess we all have to "do it" how we see it!

[farmers_son]

I am glad the water flows where you are. However, my well is gone and I am having to use dugout water. I would have been smarter to tell the permit man for the seismic company to go take a hike when they arrived on my doorstep, cheque book in hand.

I can tell you for certain I did not think the seismic was going to hurt my well one bit or I would not have allowed them to come onto my land. But I did and it did and now I am left holding the bag.

I know owners of both seismic and oil companies personally. And they are not evil. Sadly those people are not the owners of the companies that are causing me my problems. I think the seismic company that ruined my well could have treated me differently but bottom line the province is letting them get away with it.

Cowman, I hope the water keeps flowing for you because it sure is a bitch when the well goes dry.

[GreenValley]

Seismic permitman came in door and doing the paper contract but told them to write down the contract state that if mine water well turn out(about 1/4 mile) dry or something happen, he say don't need to written and it will coverage, I don't believe him and still told him to written down state that company agree to pay cover for drilling new water well and he did write down. And guess what seismic do not come into my land just stop at my neighbour edge quarter and that it. That scare them away, it work for me.

[cowdog]

Green Valley, seismic is the only part of the energy industry that you can tell to get lost and you don't need a reason.
I have not let them on my land for years.