pilot project for cbm?

[cowman]

Well we can argue these things for decades but the fact is with this PC government nothing is going to change dramatically? No matter what...they want that well drilled!
Now it may not be right...but they are the government...elected by the majority?
So you don't need to convince the likes of me, I'm a lost cause, you need to convince the Alberta population? Convince them we need to curtail the oil boom! Maybe we could cut healthcare or something to make up the shortfall?
Join a political party, get out there and knock on doors...who knows we could be the next socialist utopia!

[grassfarmer]

Back to the old redneck default argument Cowman "if you don't agree with me you are a socialist/commie"
I don't accept for a minute that to have sucessfull resource extraction industry means you must have severe environmental destruction. The mess that is Ft McMurray tailing ponds is ridiculous and should never have been allowed.
When you imply that we must allow unrestrained development because the only alternative is a socialist type regime you are missing an important parallel. The environmental destruction that you support and apparently want to see here already exists in the world - notably in some of the collapsed communist regimes. Perhaps in your fight to remain "communist free" you will finish up with the same toxic environment they have in parts of the former USSR and eastern Europe.

[grassfarmer]

I have been following this site for sometime now and finally thought I should make some comments on behalf of the companies that sit on the other side.It was with much apprehenson that I wanted to be part of a agriculture discussion site but I must commend the landowners of the Aberdeen area for susccessfully bringing this pilot together.
The comments by Cowman certainly do prove that industry is not the evil part of the equation when it comes to resource development. If all landowners were of the same feeling it would make it alot easier on the O&G sector

[grassfarmer]

"....A lot easier on the O G sector" - in other words a lot easier to ride roughshod over land owners and citizens rights, pollute the environment and waste our finite fresh water supplies. Thankfully a good percentage of the population is more aware of your tricks than Cowman. I bet you wish there were more like him.

[cowman]

Actually grassfarmer there are a lot more like me, than not? Now maybe it is my area or something...but I've never heard of a company ever forcing a well on anyone around here? If you don't want it...they just move on down the road! The amazing thing is...just about every farm here has a well or two! And while a few may grumble about the oil/gas company they seem to have no trouble cashing the check?
I think anybody who knows what it was like 50 years ago would argue that the oil/gas companies have cleaned up their act in a big way? You talk about environmental protection...there was absolutely nothing back then!
There has to be some common sense to this whole thing or we won't have an industry...period! I think with the checks and balances in place, we have a pretty good assurance that our land and water is being protected...some don't...some never would be assured no matter what! The fact is they want NO oil and gas developement...and like a dog in the manger they don't want their neighbor to get any either!
I'll tell you something, without the CBM in my area these last couple of years a lot more farmers would be gone! That lease money has allowed farmers to feed the cows, buy the fertilizer, and pay the bills!
Despite all the rhetoric on here I bet 95% of the farmers in 35-27(CBM pilot project)will patricipate? And everyone of them will cash the check and enjoy the extra money.
I find it confusing when the industry and the EUB reach out to try to work with landowners, the legitimate concerns of landowners are over shadowed by a vocal minority who want to shut down the project at all costs? This country was built by co-operation and give and take, not by "my way or the highway"! All wealth comes out of the ground or the sea, whether it is fish, grain,lumber or beef. We need to work together not be at each others throats!

[cowman]

Actually grassfarmer there are a lot more like me, than not? Now maybe it is my area or something...but I've never heard of a company ever forcing a well on anyone around here? If you don't want it...they just move on down the road! The amazing thing is...just about every farm here has a well or two! And while a few may grumble about the oil/gas company they seem to have no trouble cashing the check?
I think anybody who knows what it was like 50 years ago would argue that the oil/gas companies have cleaned up their act in a big way? You talk about environmental protection...there was absolutely nothing back then!
There has to be some common sense to this whole thing or we won't have an industry...period! I think with the checks and balances in place, we have a pretty good assurance that our land and water is being protected...some don't...some never would be assured no matter what! The fact is they want NO oil and gas developement...and like a dog in the manger they don't want their neighbor to get any either!
I'll tell you something, without the CBM in my area these last couple of years a lot more farmers would be gone! That lease money has allowed farmers to feed the cows, buy the fertilizer, and pay the bills!
Despite all the rhetoric on here I bet 95% of the farmers in 35-27(CBM pilot project)will patricipate? And everyone of them will cash the check and enjoy the extra money.
I find it confusing when the industry and the EUB reach out to try to work with landowners, the legitimate concerns of landowners are over shadowed by a vocal minority who want to shut down the project at all costs? This country was built by co-operation and give and take, not by "my way or the highway"! All wealth comes out of the ground or the sea, whether it is fish, grain,lumber or beef. We need to work together not be at each others throats!

[cowman]

Cowman for your information the companies participating in the Pilot are not all that happy with been forced to fall inline as stated by EUB and if we don't the EUB treatens to do everything in their power to make it so hard on industry in getting approvals. The only vocal person that seems to be against CBM doesn't have any holding in the township,our records show that he is actually south of the project. Industry really cann't help him with his relation with Mr. Touchette but he can come to us for any information he wants.

[cakadu]

Cowman, I find the black and white thinking concerning. Your reference to the oil patch 50 years ago is true, however, we have absolutely no idea how much damage was actualy done because nobody kept any kind of records or did any benchmarking to know where we were at.

In some respects I would say it is worse today because we are drilling at such an unprecedented rate and we have no idea what the cumulative effects are or will be.

When 4% of the reclamation orders are followed up on (less during the time of the Wabamun spill as pretty much everyone was on that) how can we say that things are better? How do we actually know? If the oil companies want to show what good citizens they are, then perhaps we should be seeing 96% of the orders being completed.

What is wrong with wanting some sort of sustainability and accountability built into what is happening? This is where the black and white thinking really takes hold. I am not advocating shutting it down, what I am saying is that we should be more prudent about it. We want unlimited growth within a finite resource base i.e. water, land, environment, ecosystems, not to mention the oil and gas themselves.

Those who have never been without water, do not understand the will to preserve it for not only oursevles, but for future generations as well. We keep treating all of this as though it was ours to do with as we wish. We are but mere custodians of it for ensuing generations.

[cowman]

Oilman: Well I am a fair ways north of 35-27 but I will tell you I think the EUB has done the right thing in this situation! They got the landowners involved, they got the municipality involved, they got the companies involved!
I think the landowners spokesman, Dave Hoar, was a very credible speaker for what the landowners wanted. I know practically everyone of those landowners and would consider it a good representation of the people living in 35-27?
I know Leo Touchette and I think he can be helpful? He doesn't have an easy job. Maybe the gas companies would rather deal with individual farmers...but reality says the government is going to be involved...so deal with it! It's the cost of doing business?
Finally the municipality is involved...and they should be? It's their roads, they take the flack, and they have to get re-elected!
At the end of the day the idea is to get those wells drilled, so everybody is happy? Would you rather continue with more angry people, a hostile municipality, a beat up EUB...and no developement?
This pilot project is a good thing! Just my opinion.

[cowman]

Linda: On a personal level, I don't think of it as black and white, as such? For me...the evidence is in...CBM as practised here today...is not going to harm my water! Now I could go off on every little whim and say oh but what if...but from what I've learned...its good enough for me!
How do any of us make a decision about anything? When do we decide we have enough information to pull the trigger?
You might think I am just a greedy old man who sees nothing but a dollar sign...but for what? I've given all my land away(except one quarter)...and yes...I've given my mineral rights away!...Now mind you, I still run the show...or like to think I do...but the acorn didn't fall too far from the oak! Well actually maybe worse than the oak...as the boy is really un-environmental! I have to give him little "green" lectures every now and then and tell him about the need of a civilized human to feel empathy for his more unfortunate brethern!
Sometimes it seems raising children is a lifelong duty! LOL