Land rush

[Horse]

Cowman you realy need to get a new format the old one of kiss the oilmans behind and blame everything on the NDP is getting old.

[coppertop]

cowdog, you do make some valid points but I certainly question your comments about licence plates etc. If you think about it for a minute, why in heck should the government in Alberta pay for plates for vehicles when a huge number of them are owned by the very businesses that you contend are getting a free ride in Alberta ????? I don't mind paying for plates for my vehicles as long as I have decent roads to drive on ! As for health care premiums, there is no free ride and anyone in this province ( AB) who is low income or a senior does not have to pay premiums unless they elect to have enhanced coverage. Alberta has some challenges but I think by and large it is a pretty decent province to live in.

I too, am concerned with expectant mothers having to be flown out of our province to have their babies but if you happen to be in the Stollery Children's hospital or the Cross or Tom Baker cancer clinics you will see many patients from other provinces who have come to Alberta for treatment or because of the expertise of specialized doctors.

People are what makes a province a good place to live, and there are many that have done a great deal to make every province in our country a good place for those who choose to call them home.

[cowdog]

coppertop, I think I failed to fully expain the Sask. program for agricultural vehicles so, I will try again In Sask. there is public vehicle insurance and I believe that insurance is attached to the license plate renewal. For farm vehicles only the following regime applies: if you have say a cattle truck, 2 grain trucks, a truck for haulling round bales, 2 older spare pick-ups, a service truck and a water tender and none of these vehicles drives more than 5000 miles per year per vehicle you can buy a single license plate and no fault insurance that you can legal move from vehicle to vehicle. That would save me thousands of dollars a year.
You are right about people making the province, but there is still a difference. Sask. feels more like Canada than Alberta; the sense of cooperation and working together has not yet been entirely erroded away and replaced by the American ideals of rugged individualism, greed and self interest to the same extent as has happened here.
All that anti NDP Stuff is really just the same disconnect that all rural people feel towards government but , in Sask. rural people are not afriad to express it. There is one thing about the Sask. NDP government we should all remember; it was the first provincial gornment to balance its budget in Canada and they did it with a hell of a lot less money than Alberta to work with.

[cowdog]

coppertop, I think I failed to fully expain the Sask. program for agricultural vehicles so, I will try again In Sask. there is public vehicle insurance and I believe that insurance is attached to the license plate renewal. For farm vehicles only the following regime applies: if you have say a cattle truck, 2 grain trucks, a truck for haulling round bales, 2 older spare pick-ups, a service truck and a water tender and none of these vehicles drives more than 5000 miles per year per vehicle you can buy a single license plate and no fault insurance that you can legal move from vehicle to vehicle. That would save me thousands of dollars a year.
You are right about people making the province, but there is still a difference. Sask. feels more like Canada than Alberta; the sense of cooperation and working together has not yet been entirely erroded away and replaced by the American ideals of rugged individualism, greed and self interest to the same extent as has happened here.
All that anti NDP Stuff is really just the same disconnect that all rural people feel towards government but , in Sask. rural people are not afriad to express it. There is one thing about the Sask. NDP government we should all remember; it was the first provincial gornment to balance its budget in Canada and they did it with a hell of a lot less money than Alberta to work with.

[coppertop]

cowdog, perhaps you should take a trip across Alberta and see first hand how co-operation has built and kept numerious communities thriving through difficult times and good times.

I live in a resource based area, and there are many self made millionaires in this community because they have not been afraid to take a risk. In getting to where they are and having the quality of life they enjoy, they have provided jobs, given back to their communities and all in all been good corporate citizens, and made our area a better place to live. Possibly because I have been involved in public life and travelled over the past few years to every single municipality in Alberta, I am not as jaded as you are when it comes to what sort of province we have.I see co-operation, community spriit and community pride in every corner of this province. Certainly, some folks have replaced that spirit with the quest for the almighty dollar but I am sure that will or is happening in other provinces as well.

I understand your issue with the ability to change plates on vehicles that aren't used a lot in a farming operation, BUT has that sort of scenario been suggested to the government in Alberta ? I would suspect that if such a program were implemented in Alberta, the industry would want the same option. Many industry vehicles aren't used all the time, only on specialized operations etc., so should they qualify for the same treatment as farmers ?

[almoy]

Cowdog, are you from Sask? Where did you get your information on registering farm vehicles?

[cowdog]

coppertop: industry already has a fleet plate program, farmers do not. Check it out with the DMV. Also we have no public insurance so you can not transfer it by moving the license plate.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of good people rich and poor in Alberta. I have travelled all the municipalities, special areas, cities, towns. settlements and boomtowns. I have talked with 10,s of thousands of albertans of there lives, goals and dreams and listened. I am one of those risk takers and a self made multi-millionaire. What we have was earned by ourselves by our own hands and minds.
copperpenny; I am certain you believe the cooperation between industy and communities is genuine; but don't scratch the surface too deep you might not like what you see. Whether it is Dow in Fort Saskatchew, Syncrude in Fort McMurray or Encana in Rosebud, the sole purpose is to maximise profit and create a climate where environmental degridation, impact on landowners and health issues gat overlooked. Ever ask yourself why corporations employ sociologists, social pscologists and so many spin-doctors? It is for the manipulation of public officals and the sheep. I know several of these people they are not afriad to admit what they do and when confronted by the concequences to communities justify it by telling me its what they are paid to do. And I'll bet that even a determined person like yourself has surcome to them from time to time, I know I have at least for a while until I gave myself a good kick in the butt.
Here in Alberta the situation has got even worse: our AENV and the EUB have clearly gone into denial, cover-up and spin mode. This was nowhere obvious than at the 35-27 Land chellenge recent public meeting, where I watched a landowner vertual have to wring a website address out of a government paid consultsnt that had bragged it up at an oil and gas convention a few monthes before. This same consulted professed that athough 52,000,000 shot holes drilled in Alberta there has never been a single documented case of a water well being damaged or a flowing hole. There is stories on this website that tell of these and thier reporting and in my past life as a seismic driller I took out 2 wells myself and the environment deptartment came down hard on the company for it, so, did they not write it down or dig the dog eat the report every single time?
It gets worse in my county the councilors hjave dropped the ball when it comes to enforcing their own bylaw regarding noise from a compressor by saying oh, we will let the EUB look after it even though in such cases regarding noise that bylaw overrules EUB regulation.
Housing shortages leading to gouging by developers and contractors, landlords gouging on rent and neither the municipalities or the government doing any thing about it.
The impending collapse of the health care system, the water and sewer system and the school system in the northeast.
You talk of community pride and spirit, well I have seen these pronouced in some of the worst hell holes in the world al they are is the proponderance of people to return to tribulism.
Coppercoin you may call me jaded if you wish but I perfer to think of myself as an observant realist who although working hard to try and make my area of the world a better place is now pondering whether it is the right place to put my efforts into.

[coppertop]

cowdog, you will notice that I refer to you as the name you have chosen, not several others, in order to undermine your views ! I realize all too well that agencies such as the EUB need a major overhaul,and I look to the new Land Use Policy Framework to be the first step in that process. I assure you that the government is hearing loud and clear that citizens are becoming very frustrated about issues such as the ones you have spoken of.

Industry is there to feather their own nests, and the government agencies, and ministries are supposed to look after the interest of the public. Somewhere along the line the allmighty dollar has gotten in the way. During the land use discussions in Red Deer in December, there were many suggestions on how to deal with growth, the economy and also the right of the people who own the land. I am hoping to see a lengthy public consultation process where people who have expertise and ideas such as yourself come forward with comments and suggestions.

[Horse]

opertop may I be so bold as to sugest that you go to municapalities all over alta , But mabey you go to the same places ie council or gov funtions where all seem to be of the same cloth Just as I asked you once when I first became active on this site What kind of givmt employe are you, Not trying to insult just point out all gov type people seem to give the same kind of responce to others ideas or questions. Not hard to pick them out .

[almoy]

Cowdog, I would still like to find out where to get the info on licencing farm vehicles in Sask. I have farmed here for years and have never heard of that deal .We licence EVERY vehicle on the farm no matter how many miles it is driven.

[coppertop]

horse I am not a government employee, I have been on a municipal council, Ag Service Board, provincial land use committees etc., and currently I am not involved with any of the above.

[coppertop]

almoy, I would think that the entire vehicle registration requirements would need changing if plate swapping was going to be allowed on farm vehicles in AB. My understanding is that vehicles are licenced by weight and wheel base, plus the type of vehicle ( passenger, commercial etc.).
I would like to learn more about how the system works in Saskatchewan.

[cowdog]

coppertop: I was out of hand by refering to you by variations of your handle, to make the point about going for the money. Please, do not refer to me as jaded I am anything but, I find that somewhat insulting.

almoy: I heard about the program about 4.5 years ago from inlaws while attending a wedding on their farm. I noticed that he had 3 single axle trucks but only 1 was plated with obvious quick clips. I made a joke about if he was trying to beat the system he should have at least painted his trucks the same colour. He said he did not need to, as all the truck were insured and licensed under the same plate, explained about the milage restriction and was surprised we did not have a similar program.
The second time I heard of the program was from aNorth Battleford farmer I met while holidaying in northwest Sask. We were talking fishin' and farmin'. The conversation turned to bemoaning the high costs of farming and how it cost so much for our farm licenses and insurance for all of our vehicles and did it cost as much with public insurance. The costs were very close but he refered to a farm fleet program for limited use vehicle to be covered by one plate and insurance and this helped to reduce costs.
The third time I heard about it was a couple of springs ago. I traveling back from a farm sale NW of Consort when I came across a smashed sports car and a 100 meters further on,a splatted deer; a mile up the road I picked up a distressed young guy from near kindersly. He was quite upset about how he was going to pay for fixing his car because the stupid deer was in Alberta instead of Sask. where apparently deer carry colision insurance. I suggest that the problem was not the location of deer but his lead foot on the back roads. Since he was preoccupied by insurance that is what we talked about, on the drive back to his girlfriend's family farm. He also new of this program for limited use farm vehicle.
I would assume that no government program would be based on any but the largest of the vehicles in it. So check it out with the DNV for Sask.

[almoy]

Cowdog, I checked with SGI (our government insurance) this morning. Every vehicle a farmer puts on the road has to have it's own licence. There is no licence to use on several vehicles. I know farmers that do it but if they are caught or in an accident they will be paying big fines and have no insurance. Also the deer insurance does not come with our licence insurance, it is a seperate policy that you buy.

[coppertop]

thanks for the info almoy, I tried to find it on the Sask. government website but all I came up with was that vehicles were licenced by weight etc.