With Alberta renewables ban, business common sense goes out the window

[chuckChuck]

Its a long transition and we are not going to stop using oil and gas all at once.

But it doesn't take much of a decline in demand to change the market.

But OPEC will try to keep consumer prices as high as possible!

You guys really like cartels and high prices. Correct?

[blackpowder]

Before the brief pause. How many acres of the best soil around were proposed for panels?
Biases apply to learning and growth as well Chuck.

[chuckChuck]

Land use by renewables is a small frcation compared to land use by the oil and gas industry. Alot of southern Alberta outside the irrigation area doesn't grow much of anything does it? Solar panels and wind farms pay better than farming in those areas. And you can still graze around windmills.

[blackpowder]

I thought solar operations have to be in one block.
There were companies signing acres on prime soil. 1600 acres of thick black in a higher rainfall area was one.
Not the same energy per acre as O&G at all.

Correction. Foothills Solar Project near Blackie was 1600 acres. Kiwetinohk Energy (a gas company) solar project was 960 acres SW of Sylvan Lake.

We have a responsibility to the easily influenced when we post.

[kANOLA]

Land use by renewables is a small frcation compared to land use by the oil and gas industry. Alot of southern Alberta outside the irrigation area doesn't grow much of anything does it? Solar panels and wind farms pay better than farming in those areas. And you can still graze around windmills.

Renewables also bring a small fraction of energy to our economy.

[goalieguy847]

Listen there isnt a human on earth that isnt all for renewables. Youre an idiot if you arent. But it needs to be done properly with very little risk to the taxpayer. Biased against renewables due to lower cost? No the cost is not lower. Not yet. Will it get there? I hope so. Nothing would please me more than hopping into my ( insert brand name) truck that charged overnight off the battery storage and solad panels... and drive 1200 kms on a single charge. We will get there. Until then... stop subsidizing renewables AND oil and gas until the taxes are paid in full.

Why should my tax dollars go to help someone make money if there is be money to be made!
i would gladly give my taxes to someone who needs a lift up ( homeless.. drug users... etc) but why do i need to subsidize suncor/ toucan energy so that they can make more profit. Eff that.

[Hamloc]

Land use by renewables is a small frcation compared to land use by the oil and gas industry. Alot of southern Alberta outside the irrigation area doesn't grow much of anything does it? Solar panels and wind farms pay better than farming in those areas. And you can still graze around windmills.

Pipeline right aways are for the most part farmed right over, oil leases on my land might be 3 acres of which 2 I still farm, or 5 acres of which 3 I farm. The amount of energy produced by oil and gas today in Alberta would far eclipse renewables, no comparison.

[chuckChuck]

Listen there isnt a human on earth that isnt all for renewables. Youre an idiot if you arent. But it needs to be done properly with very little risk to the taxpayer. Biased against renewables due to lower cost? No the cost is not lower. Not yet. Will it get there? I hope so. Nothing would please me more than hopping into my ( insert brand name) truck that charged overnight off the battery storage and solad panels... and drive 1200 kms on a single charge. We will get there. Until then... stop subsidizing renewables AND oil and gas until the taxes are paid in full.

Why should my tax dollars go to help someone make money if there is be money to be made!
i would gladly give my taxes to someone who needs a lift up ( homeless.. drug users... etc) but why do i need to subsidize suncor/ toucan energy so that they can make more profit. Eff that.

The LCOE by Lazard clearly shows renewables are the lowest cost option for new capacity. [url]https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/levelized-cost-of-energyplus/[/url]

A range of 1200 km? Huh? How many ICE vehicles have that range? Very few.

We have a plug in hybrid and the cost of the EV miles are near half that of gas. 80% efficient vs 20% for ICE.

The oil and gas industry has been and continues to be subsidized with low royalty rates and incentives to attract investment and development. And they have not paid their way as far as cleanup which is another subsidy.

The owners of the resource are getting a relatively small amount of the value of the resource when compared with other oil producing countries. More of the wealth is transferred to shareholders than needs to be. Even Danny Williams a conservative got a bigger share for Newfoundland.

So why is Alberta so bad at managing its resource revenue? Because they let the oil companies dictate the terms of development instead of extracting the maximum rent possible why still allowing for a reasonable profit.

OPEC has been controlling supply for decades keeping excess wealth flowing from consumers to producers. The oil companies have benefited from the Saudi OPEC oil cartel.

[Hamloc]

The LCOE by Lazard clearly shows renewables are the lowest cost option for new capacity. [url]https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/levelized-cost-of-energyplus/[/url]

A range of 1200 km? Huh? How many ICE vehicles have that range? Very few.

We have a plug in hybrid and the cost of the EV miles are near half that of gas. 80% efficient vs 20% for ICE.

The oil and gas industry has been and continues to be subsidized with low royalty rates and incentives to attract investment and development. And they have not paid their way as far as cleanup which is another subsidy.

The owners of the resource are getting a relatively small amount of the value of the resource when compared with other oil producing countries. More of the wealth is transferred to shareholders than needs to be. Even Danny Williams a conservative got a bigger share for Newfoundland.

So why is Alberta so bad at managing its resource revenue? Because they let the oil companies dictate the terms of development instead of extracting the maximum rent possible why still allowing for a reasonable profit.

OPEC has been controlling supply for decades keeping excess wealth flowing from consumers to producers. The oil companies have benefited from the Saudi OPEC oil cartel.

Salesman stopped in the other day. He was driving a fairly new Chev half ton with the 3.0 litre diesel duramax motor. He said his average fuel consumption was 9.4 litres per hundred km. He said on longer trips he could get that below 7 litres per hundred km. He was quite impressed. This truck has a 91 litre tank. So a 1000 km per tank or more is quite achievable.

Looking up world oil production by country, numbers surprised me a bit. I used Wikipedia. In September 2023, number 1 oil producer was U.S.A. 129000000 barrels/day. Number 2: Russia at 9480000 barrels per day. Number 3: Saudi Arabia 9060000 barrels per day. Number 4: Canada 4340000 barrels per day.

Chuck2 good article for you to read by Jackson Proskow Global news April 12,2023: “Why the ‘significant’ weight of electric vehicles is sparking new safety fears.” Enjoy your day Chuck2.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The LCOE by Lazard clearly shows renewables are the lowest cost option for new capacity. [url]https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/levelized-cost-of-energyplus/[/url]
.

Out here in the real world where we consume actual energy that was physically produced, the "capacity" is as useless as Chucks on a farm forum.

Why do you quote the cost for "capacity"?
Do you know what a capacity factor is?

[LEP]

The LCOE by Lazard clearly shows renewables are the lowest cost option for new capacity. [url]https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/levelized-cost-of-energyplus/[/url]

A range of 1200 km? Huh? How many ICE vehicles have that range? Very few.

We have a plug in hybrid and the cost of the EV miles are near half that of gas. 80% efficient vs 20% for ICE.

The oil and gas industry has been and continues to be subsidized with low royalty rates and incentives to attract investment and development. And they have not paid their way as far as cleanup which is another subsidy.

The owners of the resource are getting a relatively small amount of the value of the resource when compared with other oil producing countries. More of the wealth is transferred to shareholders than needs to be. Even Danny Williams a conservative got a bigger share for Newfoundland.

So why is Alberta so bad at managing its resource revenue? Because they let the oil companies dictate the terms of development instead of extracting the maximum rent possible why still allowing for a reasonable profit.

OPEC has been controlling supply for decades keeping excess wealth flowing from consumers to producers. The oil companies have benefited from the Saudi OPEC oil cartel.

My f150 regularly gets over 1100 km per tank.

Is it chuck math or how does a vehicle that is 80% efficient cost only half as much as one that is 20%?? Is the cost of the vehicle so much more?? Or is the difference in efficiency actually closer??

You sound like a salesman that my grandfather used to talk about. He would quote how fuel efficient this or that vehicle was and if you did a couple of modifications your mileage went up by 15% for this and 10% for that. My grandfather said wait a minute, if I buy everything you are selling I am going to have to stop every 100 miles and let some gas out of the tank.

[chuckChuck]

So your truck gets 1100 km. Do you often drive that far to get parts and supplies?

So you are happy the OPEC cartel is controlling the price of oil and that the subsidies and give aways to oil just keep flowing?

Are you sure you believe in the free market? LOL

And as a producer of solar energy we produce the equivalent of our annual average usage and guess what? It does the same job as any other electricity.

[LEP]

So your truck gets 1100 km. Do you often drive that far to get parts and supplies?

So you are happy the OPEC cartel is controlling the price of oil and that the subsidies and give aways to oil just keep flowing?

Are you sure you believe in the free market? LOL

And as a producer of solar energy we produce the equivalent of our annual average usage and guess what? It does the same job as any other electricity.

what does the fact that my truck gets 1100 km per tank have to do with whether or not I believe in the free market?

You are a weird little man.

[WiltonRanch]

So your truck gets 1100 km. Do you often drive that far to get parts and supplies?

So you are happy the OPEC cartel is controlling the price of oil and that the subsidies and give aways to oil just keep flowing?

Are you sure you believe in the free market? LOL

And as a producer of solar energy we produce the equivalent of our annual average usage and guess what? It does the same job as any other electricity.

Good for you. So it was subsidized to the tune of 50%? Probably from proceeds of carbon tax? Not slagging you just wondering how the economics play out now and into the future. Have a couple neighbours with farm scale arrays and I’m just making sense if it’s worth it. Looking at it from an efficiency point of view of pure economics, I would want some way of storing the electricity I don’t need in something better than a battery. Maybe hydrogen or eventually ammonia if the economics allow. Back feeding onto the grid you’re at the whim of the market as opposed to keeping it on farm to your benefit. I’ve also wondered as well about collecting solar heat and sinking it into the ground somehow where it wouldn’t be lost as fast, and a far simpler setup than an ev cell. Every time you convert something you lose power.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

what does the fact that my truck gets 1100 km per tank have to do with whether or not I believe in the free market?

You are a weird little man.

And a terrible mind reader. Based on the fact that your truck gets 1100 km per tank, Chuck's psychic abilities allowed him to deduce that you are pro opec, pro subsidies, and anti-free market.

Can always tell when Chuck is losing an argument, out come the straw man arguments.