Education Today

[sumdumguy]

Grandchildren now and friends’ grandchildren are complaining that they learn nothing in school. Day after day, they are bombarded with doctrine. In other words, they are being indoctrinated with Woke ideology. How did this happen? Who is in charge of curriculum? Two separate couples that I know have withdrawn their children from public and chose home schooling. Psychology Today describes the negative effects of indoctrination, mainly the outcome of indoctrination is deflating creative and critical thinking. Education should welcome “thinkers” and foster self-expression. According to our grand-daughter and her friends, the universities fail your paper if you don’t regurgitate the professor’s political beliefs. My tax dollars are being used for clandestine coercion and I don’t approve at all.

[WiltonRanch]

University has been like that for years. Think the secret is to butter the prof’s ego a bit to pass. Whatever zeitgeist has enveloped academia you gotta role with it but the secret is to to think critically yourself and seek out information which refutes this. Kind of a personal journey to think for yourself. Goes back to parenting. Far as schools teachers are inundated with directives from the ministry on top of having to teach basic academics. Still the parents duty to talk and discuss with the kids. Realize a good portion of the population are asleep at the wheel and think the government is supposed to raise their kids.

[Blaithin]

School was 15-20 years ago for me...

and we said the exact same thing then.

Why do we have to go? We don't learn anything useful.

And it's true, there isn't a lot from school that I actually find useful for day to day things. Somehow I made it all the way through without even taking a bookkeeping or accounting class. But then there are things that, while not for daily use, I do enjoy having the opportunity to have learnt. As an example, I was in a Native School Division. We had specific classes for Canadian and Native Studies, not just Social Studies. I'm actually probably quite undereducated on the WW's compared to most people my age as I didn't have to learn them year after year. I can't go on and on about Winston Churchill but I can sure tell you about Louis Riel. I really appreciate that knowledge because it's not something that's easily come by elsewhere. My parents could not have taught me such history.

Homeschooling and Unschooling are becoming much more popular and yes, the reasoning is frequently to avoid the indoctrination of the school curriculum. Yet I always question - is that not just replacing one indoctrination with another? If I were stuck at home only learning what my parents knew and believed I would not be farther ahead than I am now, I just probably wouldn't disagree with them as much Lol

I can't think of anyone that's really vocal against schooling that I would trust to replace a school with a broader expanse of knowledge. The children are going to learn a more narrow perspective, not greater. On SM you will regularly see homeschool families as the ones claiming conventional farming, pesticides, and GMO, are killing us all. Organic is the way to go. Etc. Etc. They obviously have a small understanding of lots of modern agriculture practices but they see school as indoctrinating people towards those practices so instead, teach their children half truths or downright falsehoods and erroneous facts about it.

To me, the better option would be to dedicate more time to teaching your children yourself, outside of school hours. People are busy these days, we don't have a lot of time for things outside of work. As such school has evolved to be the babysitter while parents are at work and then kids come home and do their own thing. Parent's aren't teaching kids much these days so all they have to learn from is the school system. If they had the school system teaching them AND the home teaching them, now they have a much broader exposure to knowledge and perspectives.

Don't just teach your kids chores and responsibility, teach them the biology you know, the agrology, the history, the math, the mechanics. Read to them. Talk to them. Teach them. We talk about how we've lost knowledge between my generation and my Grandparents, which we have, but the blame is usually laid at my feet. People my age should take the time to go talk to our Grandparents and hear their stories. Sure. But Parents and Grandparents should also make the time to teach their children. You cannot blame the school system for indoctrinating your children if you've put no effort in to teach them anything yourself.

So TL;DR - School vs Homeschool both have the potential to be indoctrinating. Instead, an approach where teaching happens both in school and at home would probably be a better outcome.

[WiltonRanch]

School was 15-20 years ago for me...

and we said the exact same thing then.

Why do we have to go? We don't learn anything useful.

And it's true, there isn't a lot from school that I actually find useful for day to day things. Somehow I made it all the way through without even taking a bookkeeping or accounting class. But then there are things that, while not for daily use, I do enjoy having the opportunity to have learnt. As an example, I was in a Native School Division. We had specific classes for Canadian and Native Studies, not just Social Studies. I'm actually probably quite undereducated on the WW's compared to most people my age as I didn't have to learn them year after year. I can't go on and on about Winston Churchill but I can sure tell you about Louis Riel. I really appreciate that knowledge because it's not something that's easily come by elsewhere. My parents could not have taught me such history.

Homeschooling and Unschooling are becoming much more popular and yes, the reasoning is frequently to avoid the indoctrination of the school curriculum. Yet I always question - is that not just replacing one indoctrination with another? If I were stuck at home only learning what my parents knew and believed I would not be farther ahead than I am now, I just probably wouldn't disagree with them as much Lol

I can't think of anyone that's really vocal against schooling that I would trust to replace a school with a broader expanse of knowledge. The children are going to learn a more narrow perspective, not greater. On SM you will regularly see homeschool families as the ones claiming conventional farming, pesticides, and GMO, are killing us all. Organic is the way to go. Etc. Etc. They obviously have a small understanding of lots of modern agriculture practices but they see school as indoctrinating people towards those practices so instead, teach their children half truths or downright falsehoods and erroneous facts about it.

To me, the better option would be to dedicate more time to teaching your children yourself, outside of school hours. People are busy these days, we don't have a lot of time for things outside of work. As such school has evolved to be the babysitter while parents are at work and then kids come home and do their own thing. Parent's aren't teaching kids much these days so all they have to learn from is the school system. If they had the school system teaching them AND the home teaching them, now they have a much broader exposure to knowledge and perspectives.

Don't just teach your kids chores and responsibility, teach them the biology you know, the agrology, the history, the math, the mechanics. Read to them. Talk to them. Teach them. We talk about how we've lost knowledge between my generation and my Grandparents, which we have, but the blame is usually laid at my feet. People my age should take the time to go talk to our Grandparents and hear their stories. Sure. But Parents and Grandparents should also make the time to teach their children. You cannot blame the school system for indoctrinating your children if you've put no effort in to teach them anything yourself.

So TL;DR - School vs Homeschool both have the potential to be indoctrinating. Instead, an approach where teaching happens both in school and at home would probably be a better outcome.

Well said

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I'm with Blaithin on this one.
If parents do their job of teaching their kids to be critical thinkers, they will be immune to propaganda. Both inside and outside of the family and schools.
With good parenting, there is no excuse why any kid should turn into a brainwashed chuckchuck just from attending the public schools and University system.

We had a real eye-opener as to the extent of brainwashing in some teachers now.
At a funeral recently, the lady who passed was very much progressive, but definitely not woke. Her granddaughter who is a teacher did the eulogy. At least half of the eulogy involved projecting her woke ideologies unto her grandmother. Stating that if her grandmother had lived longer how she would have learned more about the natives and and how she would have responded to a long list of all of the injustices. Then droned on and on with the prerequisite apologies and land claim acknowledgments. I am almost certain her grandmother would not have approved.

[agstar77]

So who teaches the parents to educate the kids? A.I. learning may impart knowledge , but Social skills need to be learned in a group setting and not on social media. My main value from education was learning how to learn. Propaganda is in the eye of the beholder. There are extremes on both sides of social justice.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So who teaches the parents to educate the kids? A.I. learning may impart knowledge , but Social skills need to be learned in a group setting and not on social media. My main value from education was learning how to learn. Propaganda is in the eye of the beholder. There are extremes on both sides of social justice.

Your post has accurately encapsulated the vicious circle to which the gullible Chuck and his type have fallen victim to.
Obviously his parents failed to impart any critical thinking skills upon him. He was fully primed for indoctrination in the public school system.
And due to his oversized ego and narcissism, the left wing university system was designed to reward and amplify such qualities. Play along to get along.
Unfortunately, many of the Chuck Chuck's go on to have children of their own, not only do they impart their own left wing ideology, they completely fail to teach their children any critical thinking skills, and the cycle repeats.

[Blaithin]

“Kids can’t be homeschooled, they will be socially inept” is an ignorant approach to homeschooling.

Homeschool has curriculums it must follow as well to meet government standards. There are homeschool forums that organize outings and group field trips. Many of the kids are still enrolled in organized sports. Hell, there were homeschooled kids in our 4-H club growing up.

The idea kids have to go to school to learn social skills is bogus. Especially in todays age when the social skills they’re developing at school are to text one another on their phones.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I always thought that homeschools had to meet the same curriculum as real schools. But I'm not so sure about that now. I have some very fundamentalist neighbors who homeschool their kids. They are using an American curriculum. Learning American history and political system and imperial system and quite a lot of religion.
Have a guy who works for me occasionally, who was home schooled. Is functionally illiterate. I learned the hard way that he doesn't even understand simple fractions. Kept asking him to fill the fertilizer truck 1/3 full because the field was soft. The nearly full truck kept getting stuck, he finally revealed he had no idea what a fraction was. And he is a smart guy, just has not had the opportunity to learn.

[Blaithin]

I always thought that homeschools had to meet the same curriculum as real schools. But I'm not so sure about that now. I have some very fundamentalist neighbors who homeschool their kids. They are using an American curriculum. Learning American history and political system and imperial system and quite a lot of religion.
Have a guy who works for me occasionally, who was home schooled. Is functionally illiterate. I learned the hard way that he doesn't even understand simple fractions. Kept asking him to fill the fertilizer truck 1/3 full because the field was soft. The nearly full truck kept getting stuck, he finally revealed he had no idea what a fraction was. And he is a smart guy, just has not had the opportunity to learn.

I don’t know that it’s the same curriculum as public schools. It probably CAN be should the parents choose so, but there seems to be a number to choose from.

Popular ones seem to be from religious programs. Go figure.

I believe there’s a number of different programs and associations that offer curriculums. Some would qualify for government funds while others don’t. I know they’d have to meet some sort of standard or CPS would be able to get involved. But none of that means the kids actually learn and retain and get good grades.

[agstar77]

Your post has accurately encapsulated the vicious circle to which the gullible Chuck and his type have fallen victim to.
Obviously his parents failed to impart any critical thinking skills upon him. He was fully primed for indoctrination in the public school system.
And due to his oversized ego and narcissism, the left wing university system was designed to reward and amplify such qualities. Play along to get along.
Unfortunately, many of the Chuck Chuck's go on to have children of their own, not only do they impart their own left wing ideology, they completely fail to teach their children any critical thinking skills, and the cycle repeats.

You could not join the discussion without resorting to trashing cc. That says a lot for your lack of a proper education.

[WiltonRanch]

Your post has accurately encapsulated the vicious circle to which the gullible Chuck and his type have fallen victim to.
Obviously his parents failed to impart any critical thinking skills upon him. He was fully primed for indoctrination in the public school system.
And due to his oversized ego and narcissism, the left wing university system was designed to reward and amplify such qualities. Play along to get along.
Unfortunately, many of the Chuck Chuck's go on to have children of their own, not only do they impart their own left wing ideology, they completely fail to teach their children any critical thinking skills, and the cycle repeats.

Think the family was batshit to start with.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Think the family was batshit to start with.

I believe that is a prerequisite for supporting the NDP and other radical left organizations

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You could not join the discussion without resorting to trashing cc. That says a lot for your lack of a proper education.

This is Chuck's forum, and he is all about inclusivity, so I try to include him in every discussion. I think he appreciates it since he keeps coming back and responding.

As we have discussed before, you are not doing him any favors by coming to his defense. You are only encouraging him to dig a deeper hole. His behavior is inexcusable, if you really want to help him, you could start by explaining how mature responsible adults conduct themselves in public.

[agstar77]

Yeah your behaviour is saintly. C.C. is not the worst poster, I could nominate a few others.