Sask. oil and gas

[grassfarmer]

Someone told me recently that the early 1980's Alberta Government grants to get oil companies to drill more wells during a slump are still getting paid to the companies today - the program was never stopped. The figure quoted was $184 million a year - don't know if this is true or not.

[wilagro]

grassfarmer: In Alberta the oil companies still get generous "depletion" allowances and this is built in to the royalty scheme and WE do not have a clue as to what the province of Alberta has LOST over the last 35 years or so.

Then there are the "proven" natural gas reserves that can't be sold because the oil must come out first. There is a crooked scheme there as well where compensation is paid for keeping a lid on the gas. In many cases the same company is developing BOTH resources and in many cases in the SAME field.

It is a complicated business and WE as ordinary Albertans have to accept that our glorious and all-knowing government will ALWAYS look after our every interest.

Well, I have heard "stories" about the doings of oil companies that will never be aired as too many people would be implicated. In my opinion WE lost control of the industry when the PCers came to power in this province and shortly after Lougheed stepped down.

The EUB is understaffed and overworked. Klein and his gang took a lot of their authority away and allowed industry to "police" itself. BAD move IMHO.

Enough rant, especially considering the thread relates to Sask. oil and gas, but they should learn from our mistakes as well as success.

Sounds like the NDP government is doing some good things and are adapting to "market' forces while still keeping some control...as they should do.

[skhadenuf]

With the condition of the Alberta economy and population explosion, I don't think anyone can meaningfully question what the government of Alberta has lost over the years because of their insight to invest and attract the energy sector there. I know what we have lost here in Saskatchewan because of our idiot NDP er mentality and that is we've lost our population particularly our rural population because we had a and have morons in government who think that industry development may just fall out of the sky and land in Saskatchewan. We can only wish to have that kind of problem in our province where our government would be proactive in generating activity.

[Burbert]

wilagro, saskfarmer3, I think we should research this some more, I believe the CWB is behind all the bad things that are happening in Canada. Checked commodity marketing lately. RELAX guy/gals, it's a joke, feeble attempt a humor!

[wilagro]

Burbert: Just mention the CWB or NDP and the "anti's" go absolutely ga ga. I am sure that their blood pressure zooms and they are near apoplectic collapse.

Oh well, they are not going to change...after all they can read charts and graphs and interpret them so skillfully.

[FarmRanger]

If you were part of a company looking to invest in Aberta or Saskatchewan oilsands, which would you pick? The one who has consistently been pro-private enterprise, or not? Some of the talk now coming from the Saskatchewan government may be encouraging, but there is still a lot of history to overcome.

Oilsands development is very expensive and the risk to investment is higher because of the political environment. Who wants to spend a billion dollars only to have the next government change its mind on the rules and “tax” your future profits away? Not saying investment won’t ever happen under those conditions, but other costs would have to be lower in Saskatchewan to make up for the increased risk. The same reasoning works for other industries.

[ivbinconned]

Wilagrow and Horse, if you two would get half as bent out of shape over Quebec's drain on Alberta's resources as you are about alleged corporate **** you might have some credibility.
Yours is nothing more than tired and old socialist anti business opinion.

Horse at every opportunity you rant on about “welfare cows” yet at the same time you seem to admire the Saskatchewan government that represents the welfare state and is the means by which the public sector unions extract Alberta oil patch type wages out of out of an economy not nears as dynamic as Alberta’s. That by the way is an understatement!

If anything…be consistent.

One aspect that never comes up is the fact that Alberta has been able to overcome to some degree with their economic policies is the effect of a low Canadian birth rate.

The low birth rate of much of the “western world” including Canada means that much of what we are exercised about today will be irrelevant in 30 years. Take all the 55 to 70 years olds off the road with their motor homes and their hated SUV’s and even the environment will no longer be an issue.

The impact is already obvious in Saskatchewan!

By the way…just got back from a Caribbean island where promoters are selling the locals on a big multi million dollar wind energy project. They are allaying fears of the cost by saying that under Kyoto they will be getting big payments (from guess who) to pay for it!! Subsidize Quebec…then the world

[wilagro]

ivbinconned: Advice noted...advice discarded.

p.s. I hope that you spent some of that good Saskatchewanian money on your cruise. I thought all Sask. farmers were poor (at least from all the bleating I hear, compliments of the NDP and the CWB).

Last time that I was in the Caribbean, the poverty was quite evident. I hope you stimulated their economy enough to keep them going for a while...I know that we did.

[ivbinconned]

Didn't get there by cruise, we were on a southern island where we had connections and so were able to get accommodations very cheap plus the car. We stayed in one place over two weeks...maybe we will be able to "afford" it again in three years.

If we can afford anything it is because of the Alberta money some good guys pay me to do things for them!!

We noted that the 5 cruise ships that stopped at our island spent only the daylight hours of one day...not including the supper hour so the impact on the local economy was nil...a few trinkets sold, big deal.

I doubt one could ever get a clear idea of the economy unless one stayed as we did for a while, read the papers etc. But the locals...governed by the Netherland Antilles seemed happy to a point...soon they will become a municipality of Holland. Lots of new low mileage cars on the island.

One other thing to note...but do not tell David Suzuki or Al Gore, wouldn't want to let facts interfere with theory, the ocean there was about 2 degrees colder than normal and the tide levels lower than years ago!! What used to be a desert island is becoming more tropical. The locals are not upset about that!! But if the conned industrial west wants to send them money…they will take it.

Any how we had a great time and hope you did to Wilagrow.

[Horse]

IVBC talk of consistancy you always run off on quebec no matter what the subject and dont deal with the issue at hand but if you cant blind them with brillance then baffle them with bull shit.
By the way did you see cowman down there in the carabien or mabey he is sulking somewher?

[ivbinconned]

A fair federation as opposed to comunisim or capitalism (apples and organes) you confuse the two!!

I have told you before and I will tell you again Horse...you can have it one of two ways. Democracy, the unequal distribution of wealth...

or...comunisim, the equal distribution of poverty.

Cuba or western liberal democracy (I would prefer a republic) thats your choice.
.................................

TAX System Explained In Simple Terms

Sometimes politicians, journalists and others exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact. But what does that really mean? Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, I hope the following will help. Please read it carefully. Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.


Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:


a.. The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

b.. The fifth would pay $1.

c.. The sixth would pay $3.

d.. The seventh would pay $7.

e.. The eighth would pay $12.

f.. The ninth would pay $18.

g. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.


"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." Dinner for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free, but what about the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal.

So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

a.. The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

b.. The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

c.. The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

d.. The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)

e.. The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

f.. The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start eating overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, PhD Professor of Economics

University of Georgia

[Horse]

The article is right SIMPLE terms now contrary to your beliefs I do not have a problem with the rich we will always have them but I do have a problem with how they became rich just as yoou do with Quebec getting something for nothing. ie equalization.But take oil revenue from grazing leases how do they tie together, gov grants for some corps and not others low royalties on oil for oil buiz when if it was put to a democratic vote I would almost guarante the rates would be much higher and the oil buiz would still continue , where else can they drill for alta crude, all the political apointments and contracts.
I dont mind trying to compete but when the deck is stacked agin you it is time to fold the tent.