Despite its shortcomings, Canada is not an economic basket case​

[foragefarmer]

Thank you for posting this forage. You're not alone in confusing inflation with return on investment.

AB5, you use what ever terminology you want, who cares.

We all know how Tweety, and another poster exposed how confused you were at explaining your rational in missing investment opportunities. In fact you needed government money to carry on

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Forage, you seem to have good handle on economics. The thread is about economic productivity of canada. Can you explain how a housing bubble is contributing to Canada's economic productivity?
Are we exporting houses therefore contributing directly to our actual useful GDP?
Are we using these houses to value add another product which we then export?
Are we attracting foreign Capital to build these houses, and somehow leveraging that into actual economic growth?
Or is the housing bubble a black hole which sucks in all of the scarce Capital which our Capital intensive industries so desperately need to increase productivity, driving up borrowing costs and ensuring that the average homeowner has no Capital left to invest?
When the housing bubble inevitably pops, will that contribute to our economic productivity?
I have thoroughly enjoyed watching my land values increase almost 10 fold since I started buying. How does that increase my productivity? Do you think my land is now 10 times more productive? Or has the value of the Canadian dollar declined by that much compared to tangible assets?
I'm just confused as to why you consider this to be relevant to a thread about economic productivity.

[cropgrower]

Its all great fun until it comes crashing down , seen that happen in ireland back in 2008 , all property dropped to near half pretty much over night ,land is still not back up up to the prices per acre that were being paid pre 08 , they said oh it will never drop , must buy cant loose ! very likely same will happen here in canada

[furrowtickler]

AB5, you use what ever terminology you want, who cares.

We all know how Tweety, and another poster exposed how confused you were at explaining your rational in missing investment opportunities. In fact you needed government money to carry on

You mean Tweety the imposter that pretended to be a farmer ? That tweety ?

[furrowtickler]

Ya nothing like those who have no clue on day to day farming wagging their finger at those of us that live it daily , lol

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Still laughing about the headline Chuck chose for this thread. About the most backhanded compliment you could offer, except for maybe when Chuck's only fan told him he's not the worst poster on Agriville. Talk about mental gymnastics to try to paint a Rosy picture of a disaster.
Which left me wondering, I wonder if Chuck is this much of a romantic when complementing his or her husband/wife?
Comes home after a hard day of trolling and after unveiling a long laundry list of faults the spouse exhibits, only finishes off with a compliment that he/she could have done worse in choosing a spouse.

[chuckChuck]

Try to keep up A5, it wasn't my headline!

It was a headline in an opinion article in the Globe and Mail from Peter Philips at the University of Saskatchewan.

You and the usual suspects still haven't explained why the very profitable oil industry need significant public subsidies and incentives. Why are consumers and taxpayers propping up an industry that extracts excess profits from consumers and doesn't pay for cleaning up their messes?

Not only that, according to Loertscher and Pujolas the oil industry is a drag on our productivity.

During the drilling boom prior to 2014 the oil industry drove up inflation, inflating house prices and labour costs and the canadian dollar which costs other exporters lost markets and revenues. And of course the boom crashed as the Chinese economy and oil demand slowed down. It all happened while Harper was in power so it must have been his fault?

Despite its shortcomings, Canada is not an economic basket case?

"Let’s start with productivity. Oliver Loertscher and Pau Pujolas, professors at McMaster University, have done a deep dive into productivity growth and concluded that its observed stagnation in Canada in the past 20 years is almost entirely because of the oil industry. When they netted out the oil components of the economy and looked at productivity in the rest of the economy, they found it rose at about the same rate as in the past and compared with the U.S."
?

Peter W.B. Phillips
Special to The Globe and Mail
Published Yesterday

Peter W.B. Phillips is distinguished university professor emeritus at the University of Saskatchewan’s Johnson Shoyama Graduate School of Public Policy.

[jazz]

I think when we get a chance to open the books on the country after Trudeau is gone, we are going to see a country that was totally fleeced for every virtue signaling cause to buy votes while its been hands off on the economic levers.

I have been watching the spending announcements for yrs, the big press conf ones and the little often not so public ones. We are way further in debt than we can imagine and without the economy to match. The spending announcements for just native groups has to be in the hundreds of billions since Trudeau came to office.

On top of that, the CPP is likely insolvent. Canadians are in for a rude awakening. At this point why would PP even want to take over this country. Maybe let Trudeau win again and rip the Frankenstein monster apart and be done with it.

[cropgrower]

Very sad what has happened to this once great country

[shtferbrains]

The two focus points to buy woke votes:

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Try to keep up A5, it wasn't my headline!

It was a headline in an opinion article in the Globe and Mail ]

Yes, sorry Chuck I forgot you don't have any original thoughts, you only parrot propaganda you agree with.
So according to your logic, it is acceptable to insult with a backhanded compliment your country or husband/wife as the case may be in your instance, as Long as you are parroting what someone else said.

Do you think that a country with the unlimited potential of Canada should be satisfied with achieving slightly above basket case status? Or would you rather that we set our sites somewhat higher? Perhaps aim for banana Republic status instead?

[jazz]

Canada is a basket case, confirmed. Squandered wealth and opportunity at every turn.

[foragefarmer]

Not surprised those on the outside looking in are negative towards housing, and discrediting it as a very important part of Canada's GDP. It's also a big part of the USA's GDP the richest economy in the world.

Money gravitates to where the best ROI can be achieved. I know some are fixated on O+G, but you invest your money where you choose, and by all means keep talking O+G up while continuing to try to predict when the housing market is going to crash. Trillions have been made in housing the past twenty years and it has contributed immensely to the GDP.

Don't let me stop you from hanging onto your dream of the 2030-2035 commodity supercycle as you do need something to grasp while opportunity passes you by. You guys have plenty of time to reload for that one.

Here's something regarding housing GDP and ROI: Had to cut and paste this.

"This past summer Statistics Canada reported that the housing market contributed more to the gross domestic product, totalling approximately $267 billion and expanding nearly three per cent from July 2022 to July 2023. As a share of the GDP, real estate makes up more than 20 per cent

Meanwhile, by comparison, the other sectors contributing to economic growth from 2022 to 2023 were manufacturing ($193 billion), oil and gas ($160 billion), and finance and insurance ($151 billion)."

. In 2000, the average price of a residential property in the Canadian real estate market was around $225,000. Ten years later, it was about $340,000. Today, the national average home price is above $655,000, skyrocketing nearly 200 per cent this century.

Try to discredit housing as being part of GDP , but money talks and what a great ROI housing has been.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Forage, you didn't answer any of my questions. How does housing contribute(positively) to our balance of trade?
All buying and selling housing does is takes money from one Canadian pocket and puts it into another Canadian pocket. At some point we have to sell something to a foreign country to pay for all the goods we import.
How does a housing bubble fit that bill?

If that is your definition of gdp, then all we need to do is keep selling the same trinkets back and forth to each other over and over again and we will have the biggest most successful economy ever.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Here's a real life example forages theory that all we have to do is spend money and it will magically produce GDP. I've just driven by two different permanently closed cannabis production facilities.
One never produced anything, has been up for judicial sale for years with no takers. One employed up to 500 people and lost money for 5 years before closing.
If we follow the logic that a housing bubble is great for the economy because it adds to the distorted way we measure gdp, then these money losing cannabis facilities were huge contributors to our economy and productivity. Employed hundreds of people to build them, hundreds of people to produce a product that no one wanted at a cost no one would pay. Consumed countless resources in the construction and operation. Most of the components would be imported from Europe or asia. The steel would be imported from china. Every transaction that took place to build and operate these facilities was a positive contribution to our GDP according to the forage model.
In reality, it took skilled people away from the already tight labor market, consumed scarce resources. Tied up and then squandered scarce capital. Sent even more Capital outside of the country to buy the equipment.
All to produce a product with no export potential, which would be consumed domestically and would serve to further decrease the productivity of our workforce.
The municipalities will be left with unpaid tax liabilities. Someone will eventually be left with the liability of remediating the facilities into something useful.
One facility destroyed a huge tract of what used to be the best farmland in alberta. The exact same scenario that the housing bubble is creating across the country. It's only further erodes our productivity and actual exportable GDP.