Cheap wind power ????

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Simple question, if it so much cheaper than fossil fuels , as proclaimed why are rates so expensive to consumers?

Maybe because consumers and industry got spoiled and expect electricity to be available 24 hours per day everyday of the year?
If only those pesky consumers would just settle for only wanting to use electricity when it happens to be sunny or windy...

[Landdownunder]

Interesting debate in many countries and websites eh like this one.

Mostly now people just sick of debate on both sides here in OZ like STFU were sick of it both sides i said before glenn jumps down my throat.

[chuckChuck]

There is lots of evidence that wind and solar are the lowest cost source of new generation capacity.

But the naysayers still persist in the illogical explanation that higher electricity prices are only the result of renewables? Wrong!

Generation is only one of the costs of delivering electricity to consumers. You don't think that in grids mostly dominated by fossil fuels that maybe the rising cost of gas also had an impact? Or that inflation in labour, materials or other costs might have an impact?

In Alberta several energy economist said the cost of high electricity prices was due to companies withholding supply to drive up prices.

They also said that solar and wind by providing more low cost supply, help keep wholesale prices lower.

But don't let that stop you from making off the wall undocumented claims about the cost of electricity.

Sask Power clearly said wind and solar are the lowest cost sources of new generation and can play a large role in the electricity supply even if they are intermittent.

[TSIPP]

Show us the numbers…

[shtferbrains]

When will we start to get the benefit from lowering our CO2?
It doesn't seem to be a world wide concern.

[furrowtickler]

There is lots of evidence that wind and solar are the lowest cost source of new generation capacity.

But the naysayers still persist in the illogical explanation that higher electricity prices are only the result of renewables? Wrong!

Generation is only one of the costs of delivering electricity to consumers. You don't think that in grids mostly dominated by fossil fuels that maybe the rising cost of gas also had an impact? Or that inflation in labour, materials or other costs might have an impact?

In Alberta several energy economist said the cost of high electricity prices was due to companies withholding supply to drive up prices.

They also said that solar and wind by providing more low cost supply, help keep wholesale prices lower.

But don't let that stop you from making off the wall undocumented claims about the cost of electricity.

Sask Power clearly said wind and solar are the lowest cost sources of new generation and can play a large role in the electricity supply even if they are intermittent.

That’s going to result in higher costs to consumers.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

There is lots of evidence that wind and solar are the lowest cost source of new generation capacity.

Since there is lots of evidence, can you provide even a single example of wind and solar resulting in cheaper electricity for the consumer?

[furrowtickler]

All the propaganda chuck posted here totally irrelevant if the consumers pay more .

[Landdownunder]

dont belive every cut and paste on both sides of argument.

if market price is x. a wind power producer can produce electricity at say x minus 15% do you really think there gonna sell power at reduced price knowing full well they can market price?

some forget power is a commodity goes up and down but not consumers

[chuckChuck]

Economic witholding is the reason electricity prices are higher in Alberta than in Saskatchewan. It's not renewables!

Alberta government announces new rules for electricity generators

The new measures are aimed at the practice of 'economic withholding'

Amanda Stephenson

Published Mar 11, 2024 • 4 minute read
([url]https://calgaryherald.com/business/alberta-government-new-rules-electricity-generators#comments-area[/url])


Alberta’s government is updating its electricity market rules with new temporary measures it says will help lower consumers’ utility bills.

The new measures are aimed at the practice of “economic withholding,” a strategy regularly used by power generators in Alberta’s unique-to-Canada free-market electricity system.

Under Alberta’s competitive market design, electricity suppliers submit offers into the energy market known as the power pool every hour. The Alberta Electric System Operator then dispatches the suppliers’ electricity, starting with the lowest-priced offers and moving higher until the province’s power needs for that hour are met.

Economic withholding is when power producers deliberately hold back some of their supply, offering it at a higher price. It’s a gamble that can pay off if the operator needs that power, since the producer makes more money, but backfires if the province’s power needs are met before it gets to the higher-priced offer.

The practice is not illegal, but has been highly criticized recently as one of the factors contributing to soaring consumer power bills in the province, as well as a growing number of occurrences where power prices in the province have been higher during off-peak periods than during periods of peak demand.

“Our government is committed to Alberta’s unique and investor-driven energy-only market. However, the market’s rules were designed 25 years ago, and some are no longer optimal for the system today,” said Utilities Minister Nathan Neudorf in a news release.

“This will truly make a difference by helping lower Albertans’ utility bills.”

The new rules will limit the offer price of natural gas generating units owned by large providers, if net revenues cross a predefined threshold. They will also require natural gas generating assets to be made available, as directed by the AESO, in certain circumstances such as extreme weather and other times of peak demand.
The government said the changes will still allow generators to earn revenue while ensuring Albertans have access to affordable and reliable power.

But Joel MacDonald, founder of electricity price comparison site energyrates.ca, said Alberta is one of only two jurisdictions in North America to have an energy-only electricity market whereby generators are not paid to have standby generating capacity. Instead, they are only paid for the electricity they actually dispatch to the grid.?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The dog ate Chuck's homework. And it's only the second day of school.

That wasn't an answer to my question, it was an excuse.

[chuckChuck]

Lazards LCOE has the numbers you can look it up.

And Sask Power has the numbers to say solar and wind are the lowest cost sources.

If you dispute their numbers contact them!

I am sure you and the other arm chair experts can do their cost analysis for them!

Are you enjoying those higher electricity prices because of free market withholding in Alberta?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You know you could just concede that you have failed to find anywhere in the world where supposed lowest cost wind and solar don't make electricity more expensive.

You can present all of the theoretical modeled cost projections over and over again, but if the real world application completely contradict those claims in every single instance, perhaps The logical conclusion to draw is that the models are flawed and reality prevails.

But then if you accept that these failed models are useless, you would have to face the reality that all of the other models upon which your dogmatic belief system is based could also be flawed. The entire global warming belief is based on models. Covid and the vaccine were based on models. All of your socialist wet dreams are based on theoretical models which have never worked in reality.

[TSIPP]

SaskPower says “wind power is a cost-effective power source.”

SaskPower also says “with no emissions, this is an environmentally friendly renewable resource.”

but no mention of the true cost of generating wind power or what capacity the wind turbines produce.

or what environmental footprint the wind turbines have.

keeping us in the dark for what reason?

[chuckChuck]

More from Sask Power:

Don’t Wind And Solar Projects Have Short Lifespans?
Reality: The average lifespan of newer wind turbines is more than 30 years. For a solar facility, it’s also about 25 to 30 years. With good maintenance, that can be even longer!

Background: For a comparison, the average lifespan for a natural gas power station is also 25 to 30 years.

Aren’t They More Expensive?
Reality: When it comes to cost over their entire lifespan, the average cost of large-scale solar and wind generation is a lot less than other power sources.

Background: Federal tax incentives and other funding can also help lower the price for wind and solar projects. Plus, when we use wind and solar, we avoid paying carbon tax.

Is It True They’re Costly And Wasteful To Dispose Of?
Reality: Up to 90% of wind turbine parts (including the steel) are recyclable after they're taken apart. Recycling of solar panels is currently an emerging industry in Canada. Some provinces, like Alberta, have even started programs to reclaim expired solar panels. By the time our first large-scale solar facility reaches end of life, we expect the industry will be fully developed.

Background: Decommissioning all types of power facilities takes time and money and has environmental impacts.

Don’t They Create A Huge Carbon Footprint To Build?
Reality: The environmental impacts of building a wind or solar facility are similar to those of building a natural gas power station.

Background: The lifecycle of all power facilities includes materials, construction, operation and decommissioning. The lifecycle of wind and solar facilities produce fewer GHG emissions than the lifecycle of power plants that use coal or natural gas. Hydro and nuclear have low lifecycle GHG emissions too.

Aren’t They Harmful To Our Health?
Reality: There is no evidence linking health concerns to being near solar and wind facilities.

Background: Wind and solar facilities emit low-frequency Electric and Magnetic Fields (EMFs). That's the kind of EMFs that are present in most of the technology we use every day, like TVs and computers.
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