Sudden Death

[fjlip]

This farm was WAY ahead of curve.... Had Wind generator from 1945 to 1957!

Then Sask power put it all into the GARBAGE with electricity!!!!!

Screw going backwards in time.

I can still SMELL the acid batteries in the basement over charged when windy!

Dad had to climb 40' tower to fix/oil stuff.

[WiltonRanch]

This farm was WAY ahead of curve.... Had Wind generator from 1945 to 1957!

Then Sask power put it all into the GARBAGE with electricity!!!!!

Screw going backwards in time.

I can still SMELL the acid batteries in the basement over charged when windy!

Dad had to climb 40' tower to fix/oil stuff.

It’s kinda funny how these environmentalist types espouse living a lot like what older people lived like in the countryside years ago. Folks were off grid not by choice but by necessity. Didn’t take long for them to adapt to electricity and fossil fuel. Naivety is abundant. I’m a young pup but spent my summers in a camper and to this day there is no bloody way I will go camping for fun.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Hamloc, for years you have been pointing out that the inevitable result of adding unreliable energy to the grid would be complete redundancy of all generation as back up.
I see Alberta is already there. We now have far more than twice as much generation capacity as peak consumption on a typical day.
Only necessary because with all of the weather dependent generation offline as of today, we've lost 1/3 of our entire generation capacity.

[Hamloc]

Hamloc, for years you have been pointing out that the inevitable result of adding unreliable energy to the grid would be complete redundancy of all generation as back up.
I see Alberta is already there. We now have far more than twice as much generation capacity as peak consumption on a typical day.
Only necessary because with all of the weather dependent generation offline as of today, we've lost 1/3 of our entire generation capacity.

Quite correct AF5. Chuck2 constantly preaches on how Solar and Wind are the cheapest source of electrical generation. But the reality is that that is not true. For every kilowatt of wind or solar you install you must install an equivalent kilowatt of generation like natural gas that is reliably available 24/7 365 days a year. On paper adding wind and solar increases your generation capacity but in reality that is only true once the additional kilowatt of reliable power is added as well. So the end result is higher capital investment with renewables and more expensive electricity as the end result.

[chuckChuck]

In Alberta the cause of higher electricity prices has been " economic withholding" That is utilities holding back supply to increase prices. Renewables have helped keep the pool prices lower!


[url]https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/varcoe-alberta-power-market-shakeup-save-consumers-billions-expense-investor-confidence[/url]

Varcoe: Alberta power market shakeup could save consumers billions but at 'expense of investor confidence,' report finds

"Economic withholding is permitted in Alberta, allowing generators to offer electricity at prices “sufficiently above marginal cost that the generator is not dispatched, and the pool price is increased as a result,” according to the Market Surveillance Administrator.

The changes will restrict economic withholding by capping the offer price permitted by large generators, if their net revenues exceed a predefined level.

Under the broader reforms being proposed, the province could create new rules that include day-ahead pricing for the wholesale power market.

The AESO is consulting on the proposed changes, and technical design is expected to be wrapped up later this year.

After a period of lower power prices in Alberta last decade — wholesale electricity prices averaged below $20 per MWh in 2016 — they have averaged more than $100 per MWh during the past three years.

However, prices are projected to drop this year as additional gas-fired and renewable generation comes online. With the provincial changes, the EDC report has lowered its 15-year forecast of power prices by $9 per MWh, or eight per cent.

In an interview, Neudorf said Tuesday that he’s pleased to see prices are expected to fall for consumers in Alberta.

“We wanted stability and, honestly, we hoped for a bit of an easing in those prices,” Neudorf said."

[chuckChuck]

How Alberta’s Electricity Generation Market Works
[url]https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/electricity-market-pricing.aspx[/url]

In Alberta’s competitive, energy-only market design, suppliers are only paid for the electricity that they generate. Electricity suppliers submit offers into the energy market (also known as the power pool) every hour. The Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO) ([url]https://www.aeso.ca/[/url]), which manages the power pool, dispatches the suppliers’ electricity starting with the lowest-priced offers and selecting progressively higher priced energy until the supply for that hour meets Alberta’s demand. Once the total demand for power is met, the market pays all suppliers the price of the highest dispatched offers.

Economic Withholding


During periods of relatively high demand, suppliers may choose to offer some or all of their electricity at a very high price to recover fixed investment costs. This offer strategy results in higher pool prices and is referred to as economic withholding.

If the AESO is unable to balance supply and demand with lower-priced offers from other suppliers, progressively higher-priced electricity will be dispatched and increase the pool price for that hour. Alternatively, if the AESO is able to meet electricity demand from lower priced sources, then higher priced energy will not be dispatched, and suppliers will not be paid for it.

As of July 1, 2024, the Government of Alberta has enacted two temporary regulations to limit this strategy.

The Market Power Mitigation Regulation ([url]https://open.alberta.ca/publications/2024_043[/url]) limits the offer price for large natural gas generators if total monthly revenues exceed a predetermined threshold.

The Supply Cushion Regulation ([url]https://open.alberta.ca/publications/2024_042[/url]) gives the AESO the ability to direct some slow starting natural gas generating units online ahead of an anticipated need.

Both regulations are scheduled to expire and will be replaced by long-term permanent measures in November 2027.

[Hamloc]

Chuck2 if you read one of your favourite left wing news sources The Guardian you will see the state of South Australia is the bell of the renewables ball with 75% of its electricity coming from renewables. I looked into pricing of electricity assuming it would be very cheap. But not so much. Your first 11 kwh per day is 41 cents a kwh, the next 14 kwh is 43 cents a kwh. So affordable.

[chuckChuck]

And the only cause is renewables! LOL

Try comparing apples to apples and getting your facts straight!

In Victoria the majority of electricity is from brown coal They are not near 74% renewables yet!

Our renewable energy targets
Victoria's renewable energy targets legislated in the Renewable Energy are:

• 25% by 2020 (achieved)
• 40% by 2025
• 65% by 2030 (previously 50%)

Most of the electricity in Australia is still from fossil fuels so by your lack of logic and evidence that must be the cause of higher prices!

In 2023, 47% of electricity still came from coal, 18% from gas and 32.8 % from renewables.

[url]https://www.iea.org/countries/australia/electricity[/url]

[Hamloc]

So then this article in The Guardian is misinformation?

[Hamloc]

Surely left leaning media organizations aren’t guilty of putting out misinformation are they Chuck2?!?!

[chuckChuck]

Is the International Energy Agency wrong?

So Coal must be the cause of high energy prices then by your stupid logic? LOL

Only arm chair simpletons make sweeping generalizations about complex industries that they don't work in or have never studied in depth!

How the hell do you know anything about Victoria's electricity system and why prices are high just by looking at one factor?

Only fools make such claims!

You don't even know what the hell is going in your own Province of Alberta! LOL

[cropgrower]

and you cc know everything that happens in Australia LOL

[Hamloc]

Is the International Energy Agency wrong?

So Coal must be the cause of high energy prices then by your stupid logic? LOL

Only arm chair simpletons make sweeping generalizations about complex industries that they don't work in or have never studied in depth!

How the hell do you know anything about Victoria's electricity system and why prices are high just by looking at one factor?

Only fools make such claims!

You don't even know what the hell is going in your own Province of Alberta! LOL

Chuck2 you do realize I was talking about the state of South Australia not the state of Victoria?!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Only arm chair simpletons make sweeping generalizations about complex industries that they don't work in or have never studied in depth!

You can say that again.

While looking in the mirror.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Chuck2 you do realize I was talking about the state of South Australia not the state of Victoria?!

Chuck is so used to bait and switch after the Democratic party pulled this on them on virtually every issue they was passionate about, that they/we assume since they fell for the bait and switch so easily, everyone else will too.
Not Hamloc though

Here are the stats for South Australia.

Where does South Australia's electricity come from? South Australia generates more than 70% of its electricity from renewable sources. By 2025/2026, this is projected to reach 85%, with a target of 100% net renewable energy by 2027.