Ray Strom Found Guilty

[coppertop]

cropduster, Jack Hayden did NOT support Dinning so likely didn't support many of Dinning's ideas !!

[cowdog]

Hayburner I understand that the Pine Lake Group has sent a representive to the legislature to talk to the rural caucus about the Strom case. As at all PLSRAG meeting there is always time for discussion and this is a most valid topic for that discussion.

Here is the meeting notice:

PINE LAKE SURFACE RIGHTS ACTION GROUP
PUBLIC IMFORMATION MEETING
at the
ACME Community Centre
139 Allison Street, Acme
APRIL 9TH, 2007 @ 7:30 PM doors open 6:30 PM
Members free - Memberships @ the door
Non-members - $10 Industry and Regulators - $50

Guest Speakers:
Andrew Nikiforuk, award winning Alberta journalist and author will be presenting: Use of Water by Oil and Gas Industry.
- Andrew, an active member of the Livingston Landowner group, has garnered national acclaim for his journalism. His work regularly appears in both national newspapers, Canadian Business, Saturday Night, Maclean’s, Report on Business, Equinox and Harrowsmith to mention but a few magazines it appears in. He also is the writer the Land Advocate. He has also written several acclaimed books including: Schools Out, The Fourth Horseman, Saboteurs and his most recent Pandemoniun.
Kevin Niemi and Glenn Norman, both of whom are farmers, landowners and directors of the Pine Lake Group will be presenting: Surface Rights Agreements: Empowering Landowners.
- This presentation was prepared for the 2007 Farm Tech Conference in Edmonton, where attendees rated it as one of the best sessions of the conference. The presentation is designed to empower landowners to think and act differently when confronted by energy industry or their intended intrusions onto your property. It is packed full of thoughts, concepts, ideas and is a must for landowners facing ever increasing numbers of CBM, shale gas, geo-thermal and CO2 sequestering wells in the near future.

EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO COME

[farmers_son]

Regarding the byelection…I am sure all of the people seeking the PC nomination are very qualified. And I am sure the people in that riding can be counted upon to vote PC even if the PC candidate was a registered sex offender. Come to think of it one of the previous elected officials in that area actually was a sex offender. However a by-election does offer the voters in that riding a chance to voice their unhappiness with the government without actually overthrowing the government.

They can vote PC during the general election in a couple of years. But now is now. They can send a letter if they want and that would be good or they can make their vote speak for them by voting for anyone other than the PC candidate, whoever that might end up being. Lets consider some of the issues:

• Well site and easement payments that are little changed much since the 1980s while the farmer can hardly afford to buy fuel.
• Oil and gas sector using fresh water to increase production while the farmers have to have a license to dig a dugout, coal bed methane and seismic threatening farm water wells.
• Billions spent on roads and infrastructure in the cites while there has been little or no rural secondary highways built in the last 20 or so years.
• Two levels of health care in the province, one level for the cities and another poorer level for the rural areas. Rural hospitals closed and service drastically reduced. Today, in many areas of rural Alberta you are dead if you have a heart attack where before Klein there would have been health care close by.
• Government clawing back CAIS overpayments at the same time cow calf producers have had to bear the cost of BSE on their shoulders. The governments solution is to give farmers a loan.
• No reference margins left on CAIS safety net after government let CAIS reference margins deplete through successive years of drought and BSE, leaving the government to say those affected producers are poor managers.
• Government not letting landowners have access to advice from whoever they want in dealings with the oil companies, just parroting the oil companies position.
• In that particular riding, no support from government for vital water/irrigation while the Government instead supports water for a horse race track near Calgary.
• Crop insurance premiums that are not affordable while coverage levels have dropped.

Shirley McClellan was the best MLA that region is ever going to get yet what was the last time there was a paved road built in that constituency? I think it is a fair comment to say that the PCs are a government by and for the oil companies. Now I know none of the opposition parties are very impressive but the PCs have been taking the farmers vote for granted. If landowners and farmers want government to pay attention to them instead of big oil and gas they need to consider that nothing is going to change if they vote PC in that by-election.

Like what is there to loose? A road or a hospital? There is nothing to loose by voting for anything else than the PC candidate in a by-election and maybe the opportunity to have your voice heard for a change.

[coppertop]

FS, I really think you are taking a low shot at electors in any constituency when you infer that they would knowingly elect a registered sex offender as their MLA.

If you have issues regarding landmen, then try and stick to those vs going on a tangent that insults the integrity of anyone entering a polling station.

The issue with landmen is not unique to Settler/Drumheller, it is provincewide as far as I know. I can't understand your logic in thinking that the voters of one constituency will have anything to gain by sending a member of the opposition to the Legislature where they will have calluses on their backside from sitting in the nosebleed section of the backbench. Better to lobby the current government, particularly the rural caucus to push to amend what appears to be poor and outdated legislation. Remember, the urban voters within that constituency likely don't give a tinkers damn about landmen, and will likely not take it up as a cause during the by-election.

I don't know whether the folks in Stettler/Drumheller rate their MLA by the amount of paved roads they receive, I know I sure don't. Shirley must have been doing something right, she served the constituency for almost 20 years.

[hayburner]

Thanks Cowdog Since I asked the question a newspaper article came with some more information. I have talked to many a neighbor about this Strom case and there are alot of common concerns that we should beable to have any one we want to help with signing any agreement that comes before us. I have tried to do it myself over the years now I am trying play catch up with what some of others were offered . I trusted the lad that came to drill a couple of oil wells on my place and I have regretted trusting him for the last 10 years. once bitten twice shy as the saying goes.

[farmers_son]

I am left wondering just how much you feel the PCs can ignore rural Alberta before the voters should consider changing their vote. I believe your answer would be to always vote Conservative. And we have since the late 60s, early 70s.

I personally do not recall a time during that period when rural Alberta was so totally ignored as it is right now. We did get good government during the Lougheed years but I think any objective observer would have to say that during the Klein years the focus was not on rural Alberta, preferring instead the cities and the oil and gas sector. Now after nearly 40 years of Conservative rule our young people are leaving the farm in droves, our rural communities (beyond the Hiway 2 corridor) are dying, farm debt is skyrocketing, the oil and gas industry is running rough shod over the men and women on the land.

You say we should lobby the rural caucus. I am thinking there must be an oil and gas caucus somewhere because they are calling the shots in this government, not rural Alberta.

I agree, send a letter. For most of the province that is about all a voter can do. However in Shirley McClellan's former constituency those voters can decide to send a clear message to Edmonton in the upcoming by-election or else keep on hoping someone in Edmonton actually opens those letters because the impression I get is that our Government is Edmonton is just throwing any concerns from rural Alberta in the waste basket.

[coppertop]

I don't agree with you on much of your comments FS, but I do respect your right to them.
For one thing, the young people leaving the farm in droves are likely getting an education and making their own decision to work in whatever industry or profession they choose. In Alberta, any young person who wants to make a decent living can do so, thankfully that opportunity is here for them. I know many such young people in this area and across the province that have chosen to take courses that are agricultural related because their goal is to work in some area of the Ag industry, be it value added or developing Ag Policy.
I don't know exactly what you expect the government to do for the agricultural industry. If you want the government to act on your behalf they will need good sound proposals, and that will not matter which party is in power.

I am not suggesting that voting for the PC party is the only option, I am merely stating the facts which are that it will be a Tory that gets elected in the Stettler/Drumheller constituency, so those who have issues they wish to have addressed will get their best results by choosing a Tory candidate that understands the issues facing agriculture and rural Alberta.

[JD4ME]

biy thats spoken like a true blue tory, why do I get the feeling that conversations like this took place when the UFA and then social credit parties where in power. Alberta has a long history of suddenly abruptly tossing out the old gov't. Stelmach needs to pay heed to the ones that brought him to the dance or he'll pay for it. And striking another commitee to develop a plan then won't cut it then.( And I'm not saying we'll go liberal)

[JD4ME]

Sorry the spelling stinks long day.....

[coppertop]

At this point in time, I don't see any alternative to a Tory government. I think our new Premier is well aware that his government needs to be accountable, provide good open honest government or there will be other parties that can get a toe hold in this province.

I have been going over the resolutions for the upcoming PC Convention, and what a sorry lot of resolutions they are.

No mention of land use issues, several mentioned the Water for Life strategy, and one even went so far as requesting that the government put the wheels in motion to charge for water !!!!

Many of them are requesting specific infrastructure projects vs doing things for the good of all Albertans. I feel we are fortunate to have a cabinet with a good understanding of rural Alberta, at least we won't get lost in the shuffle because each of the rural cabinet ministers wants to get elected next time round, so paying attention to their electorate is going to be extremely important.

There are ways to lobby government, it takes time, requires a lot of factual information etc. but I have seen firsthand how successful a good lobby effort can be.

[farmers_son]

To be clear, in no way was I suggestiong a change in government. Just pointing out that by-elections offer an opportunity to express dissatisfaction with the government of the day if the voters so desire.

[coppertop]

FS,for a constituency that encompasses Special Areas to have an opposition member representing them would make absolutely no sense at all. Sending messages to government is best done by a good lobby process, meeting with MLA's, Cabinet Ministers etc. to get ones concerns in front of the decision makers.
If the government of the day is not responsive to concerns of large groups of citizens, then change will happen.

All too often I have seen special interest groups try to make their point by negative dialogue vs good solid facts and proposed solutions to issues. Municipal councils face the same sort of process, and believe me, a good, well thought out proposal for change or implementation of specific policy gets the attention of elected officials. In the case of the issue of landmen, what seems to be the desired result will entail legislative change which does not come about overnight.

Changing legislation must be done during a sitting of the legislature. Any proposed changes must be written, vetted through Legislative Council to ensure the wording is appropriate etc., then it must go through the rest of the process which culminates in it being debated on the floor of the legislature. If there is the will in government to change the legislation which applies to landmen, I would venture to guess that there is no possible way it could be in front of the legislature until the spring 2008 sitting, and that is only if the wheels start in motion ASAP.

It is highly doubtful that an opposition member could move this process forward with any more expediency than a government member !!

[farmers_son]

The Progressive Conservative Government charged Ray Strom (as a result of lobbying by the energy sector) in late 2003 or early 2004. They have known about this problem for a long time and have chosen to do nothing about it. However the Land Agents Licensing Act Regulations are still in review awaiting approval by Cabinet Policy Committee. Landowners could be exempted from the Act in the regs. with basically little more than the stroke of a pen.

When you point out the benefits of lobbying we need to bear in mind that the energy sector is lobbying government too. Many stakeholder groups lobby government. I do not think the issues I listed earlier are a result of a lack of lobby effort on the part of rural Alberta. Those problems arise as a direct result of a government that as of the last ten years has ignored rural Alberta. The rural Alberta vote is taken for granted.

This government is way too closely aligned with the wishes of the energy sector. You say "If the government of the day is not responsive to concerns of large groups of citizens, then change will happen.” I agree. The Progressive Conservative Government of Alberta has not been responsive to the concerns of rural Alberta whether those concerns center around water, rural school closures, rural hospital closures, CAIS payments that were supposed to be based on loss of equity in the cow herd which the province now wants to say was a loan that needs to be repaid, scaleback of enforcement of the energy sector by the EUB, the free hand given to the energy sector to run this province as it sees fit not to even mention gerrymandering the vote away from rural Alberta to the cities.

Voting for anyone but the PC candidate in a by-election is probably the ultimate way to lobby government. If Shirley McClellan could not get the government to listen to rural Alberta I doubt if any of the other potential candidates for the PC nomination can do better. The only way to get the PCs to not take the rural vote for granted is to withhold that vote from them and a by-election is a good place to do that so that change will happen.

I really think that the actions of the Progressive Conservative Government of the Province of Alberta in concert with their bosom buddies the energy sector who for three years chose to drag through the court system one small person whose only crime was he helped rural landowners deal with the oil companies will become a lightning rod and a icon for landowner dissatisfaction with the way rural Alberta has been treated by this Government. The proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

[skhadenuf]

Full marks to you farmer-son, I am not totally up to par on this particular issue, however as you mentioned in earlier posts the rural decline is a real thing happenning and as I have said in other threads it's about time that those who need our vote federally or provincially actually give rural people a fair representation for that vote. We should not just be satisfied with voting for the power of the day we need to be getting some mileage out of our vote. I agree totally especially in a situation where there is a by-election give those that are taking us in the rural areas for granted a boot up the ---.

[coppertop]

It will be very interesting to see what the majority of the electorate decide in the two by-elections.

In my constituency the candidates that ran for parties other than the PC's were a dismal lot to say the least.

We do have an excellent fellow who will run for the Green Party in the next provincial election, however, his chances of winning are slim.

FS, what do you envision Alberta would look like on an economic scale if we did not have the resource industries at work here ? I will await your answer before I make further comments on the subject.