going hard on faith!

[dballan]

Positive........orthodox. Resting today! Asked a friend of mine at church this morning for his email address so I could pass it on to you somehow. He wears a skull cap, shawl and blows the shofar in our services during worship. He understands much more of what you relate to than I.

[cowman]

Well I'm a little slack about visiting this sight but I don't know about all this talk about demons making people gay? Personally I've never seen no demons and I suspect most people can be evil and wicked without any help from Satan?
Now I'm a nuts and bolts kind of guy and I need to see things with my own two eyes before I buy into them. My faith is built on a common sense approach, in my opinion. Occasionally I might get a little glimpse into something else, but basically not.
I don't see being gay as something really evil. Now I do see selling killer drugs to young people as being true evil or serial sex killers as being intrinsically evil! But you know we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God? The message of Christ was we have a redeemer who fixes that?
That is the whole thrust of the entire bible?...and that makes Christianity a pretty easy religion?
I don't know about Jews? Do they have a redeemer? How do they reconcile the fact that they are not acceptable to God, according to the Christian way of looking at things? Or maybe they don't think they are unacceptable to God?
I often wonder how Christians view the Jews? Do they consider them the true chosen people or a religion that just didn't get it right? In the Christian bible it says you have to come to God through the son...so how can the Jews be acceptable?
I realize arguing religion is a no win situation and I'm not saying I have all the answers! Because I sure don't!
I believe we all have a journey here and we are all here to learn something? Hopefully we aren't just wasting our time and spinning our wheels?

[dballan]

Hi Cowman. Good to see that you are up and well. I believe that God will judge the homosexual, that the Holy Spirit will convict him/her, and that we are to love them. It doesn't do us or anyone else any good to do the judging and convicting. If God and the Holy Spirit don't do it we end up just driving in more wedges between the sinner and the Lord by doing it ourselves. That is not to say that we are to condone their actions. We need to follow the Word in that regard. They, like all the rest of us, are sinners and are just as dependent upon the blood of the Lamb for redemption. I have acquaintances who claim to be homosexual. They know that I don't approve of their behaviour. If I thumped them with the Bible the door would close for further communication with them. What would that accomplish?

[sksundstrom]

Cowman
Nice to hear from a nut ..... and bolt man. I'm the same.
The problem is that once something is fact it is no longer faith. And that fact might not even be truth. What is your faith Cowman?
Since the spiritual world is rarely seen it must not exist, right?
If we look at the gay lifestyle from a biblical perspective, we see that there is one that is out to kill, steal and destroy and that is satan, right.
So if someones life is cut in half it is hard to believe that God is behind that!
God is the giver of life, abundant life.
The only sin that humans has to answer to is if we have believed in Yeshua or not. John 16:9.
There is no traditional sins held against any human according to 1 John 2:2 and Rom 5:6-11. Every human has the opportunity to be reconciled with God by just believing that Yeshua is who He said he was. Now if a human believes in Yeshua he/she also believes His word and wants to do as Yeshua said. John1:14 tells us that Yeshua is the word that became flesh. Now think a bit. The gospels and all the books in the New Testament hadn't been written yet. Consequently the word that became flesh is the Old Testament books which are the Torah, the prophets and the writings. How can a person show that he/she believes in Yeshua? By living according to - the Word. Yeshua is the living Torah.

[dballan]

Faith is fact. It is not fiction, but it is still faith, in fact.

[cowman]

sksundstrom: Oh I accept that their is a spiritual world. As I said occasionally I get a glimpse or sense, if you will, that there is something to it! Almost like a guiding light.
But I can honestly say I don't think I've ever witnessed anything para normal in my whole life?
My faith is a pretty easy one. To me obviously there was a creator. Christianity works for me because it makes sense to me. Don't know about other religions because I just never looked into them all that much. Raised in a practical Prespryterian home where the message of Christs redemption were just taken for granted. In later years tried some more radical types of Christianity but still believe the doctrines of Knox were pretty well right on.
I still believe "good works" are just a reflection of what is inside of you and will come out naturally in your everyday dealing with the world...not something you do to prove to yourself or the world what you are?
I can be a pretty tough businessman but I've never cheated anyone or treated them differently than I would want to be treated! I don't expect anyone to "baby" me in business but I do expect them to be honest and fair.
Faith is a hard thing to describe? It isn't something you can nail down hard and fast...or at least I sure can't?
I have a little voice inside me that tells me what is right and wrong and it does tell me that there is something very wrong about homosexuality! Also sleeping around on the wife, screwing someone on a business deal, stabbing your neighbor in the back, demeaning people, killing unborn babies!
I think at the end of the day, when we stand before God, if you can say "Hey I think I led a pretty decent life(not a perfect life) and I had empathy for my brother" then you probably did okay?
My biggest problem has always been pride in myself and my ability to get things done! I struggle with that one all the time. I try not to have contempt for people, whether it be the bum in the gutter or the drug addict or the flaming gay! I often remind myself "There but for the grace of God go I"!
We are all corrupt and I don't know why some people fall by the wayside while others don't? I suspect God has a plan for each of us and different circumstances for each of us to live with? Quite frankly I believe God gave me a pretty good game to play, even though I have had some pretty tough hands to play at times! Nothing as serious as a lot of people but tough all the same? Health issues, divorce, business setbacks...through all this I have never lost my faith. At times that was what kept me going. I really like the story of Job and I like Eclesiastics! A whole lot of valuable insights in those two!

[sksundstrom]

Hebr 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Rom 8:24 .But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
Faith is something that is going to become fact. Like God does things, Rom 4:17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were. Just like when He made this place God speaks out what He wants to become a fact. We should do like Yeshua, right?, and only say what the father says.
That is how a we all become saved-believing in the heart and confess with the mouth. Rom 10:8-10. I see believing more like a decision, 1 Thess 5:21.
That is what counts when we see God face to face! If we believe that Yeshua is Gods word in the flesh and make Him Lord of our lives while still in this earth-suit. Not our deeds! So nobody can brag. Eph 2:9.
Fact is not always truth. I.e I can not see your intellect, alas you have none! It is hard for nuts and bolts guys like me to accept somthing through effects of somthing. Like the wind. It is untangible yet has serious effects. Still we do everthing based on faith or trust. Thats how God made us-in His image.
Intersting about Job, he lost his faith,3:25, almost lost everything in the game of life and re-gained His faith and got double after he repented,42:6-. All his trouble lasted about 9 months and he lived in abundance with God for 140 years after and who knows how many before. Also God has Job to pray for his friends who had spoken wrong!! Everything said by his friends is wrong-not fact.
I personally appreciate the Torah,first 5 books, more and more. They are the foundation for everything else in the Bible. It is hard to build the second storey without the foundation?
Shalom

[SW1-32-5-4]

Hey sksundstrom
The bibles that I read show me that Yeshua is the Word not the first five books of the Old Testament. There is no one more practical and rational in their statements on these pages than the old cowman. However I see that he tends to miss the whole point on faith. Faith can come to you only one way and that is by the word of God, Rom 10;17. When we follow old reformers and theologens we tend to fall into the same ditch that they did. So fellows let the Word and the Holy Spirit be your teacher not the tradions of men. see Colsians 2;8

[cowman]

Well I do read the bible...almost daily...and that is my source of faith! It just happens that I personally believe Knox pretty well had it right.
The bible is a complete book. You can't take one part of it and focus on that...the whole thing supports every part of it, in my opinion?
Jesus Christ said I am the word. He also says before the world was created he was! He was either a liar, insane, or truly what he said he was? You choose which one?
In my opinion the new testament is the culmination of everything else that was written in the bible? Sort of brings the whole thing into focus?

[sksundstrom]

SW
When Yeshua came in to this world, what word of God existed? Not gospels or any epistels, right. The word that it talks about in John 1:14 that became flesh, is the OT. or Tanak including the Torah,5 first books, the prophets and the writings. The prophets and writings for the most part expounds and explains the Torah.
Yeshua only read the Tanak. NT from Matthew on, was not written then. Yeshua got His faith from the Tanak and He is very strong regarding the importance of the Torah and the prophets in Matt 5:17-20.There is still a heaven and a earth, right?
So SW do you follow Gods word and keep Sabbath? On the seventh day? Or has your "spirit" led you to do otherwise- contrary to Gods word? The fourth commandment, is it still Gods word? Yeshua in the flesh! Faith is also obedience in the face of inconvenience and man-made traditions. I'm pushing a bit but I hope you don't get offended!?
Sam

[sksundstrom]

Cowman
I think that to understand NT there has to be a basic understanding of OT from a Hebrew perspective to fully understand NT. NT didn't do away with OT. NT is more a re-newed covenant where the blood sacrifices of animals blood were done away with and Yeshua laid down His life for all mankind once and for all obliterating satan and rendering sin totally powerless. That is if a human accepts Yeshua for who He is.
The focus of NT is OT and it has to be understood that there is not a new group that are invited to heaven. The difference is that through Yeshua the gentiles, all other than jews, can become part of gods family-the Israelites.Eph 3:6.Then become part of Gods people, Eph 2:19-20. There is no church denominations only believers in Yeshua that have become grafted in to the true vine. Sheeps and goats. there is all nationalities in both groups. The dividing line is who has accepted Yeshua and live like it. Not only by words but also with deeds. James 2:14-26. Did you know that the book of James is really the book of Jakob, but king James wanted his name in the Bible so the translators re-named the book of Jakob to the book of James? Really king James version, huh?
Shalom

[SW1-32-5-4]

Hey Sam, I'm not easily offended so blast away. Yes I keep the Sabbath but not a day of the week. you see I happen to believe that Yeshua is my Sabbath according to Matt.12;8. Do I work on 7 days of the week? no. One day is for meeting withother believersActs 20;7,John 20;19. Rom 14;5-6. My Bible says that Yeshua is the originator of faith.Heb.12;2 He didn't need to "get it" from another source. After all He is the Creator. I'm pleased that Jews are coming to faith but you cannot mix legalism with the Gospel of Grace

[SW1-32-5-4]

Sam,
Take your Strong's concordance and check James, you will see that it is the greek name for the Hebrew Jakob. There is no conspiracy about "king James".

[sksundstrom]

SW
Is Exodus 20:8-11 in one or all of your Bibles? Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Is Exodus 21:12-17 in there?12: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
13: Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14: Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15: Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16: Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17: It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Is Isaiah 66:22-23 there?
22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Togehter with Yeshuas statement in Matt 5 it looks to me like the sabbath is, just like God said, an everlasting covenant even when there is a new heaven and a new earth.
Maybe we shouldn't alter Gods word and get in trouble like the Pharisees in Matt 12?

[SW1-32-5-4]

Well Sam if you are going to live by the law then you better keep it all. That means all the ceremony and sacrifices, are you raising any red heifers? James 2;10-" For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all". Thank God for 1 John 1 ;9. The only way to please God is by walking by Faith, not by perfomance. Titus3;5